What do famous guitar players use?

Hi to all...

I've been focusing in improvising lately but i've only used pentatonics so far. So i was wondering what kind of scales do the best guitar players use?

I heard that people like Clapton and BB King only work with pentatonics and Vai and Satriani work with modes, can you guys please explain this further?

Thanks in advance,

You should learn as much scales & chords as you can, so you have more choices and sound more versatile.

Check out other older threads in this section of the forum, you'll find some detailed explaination of modes & stuff.

Almost all guitarists know and use the major and minor pentatonic scales, and a lot usse the blues scale too. Most guitarists use the major and minor scales either from knowing the scale or just playing by ear. Many intrumental guitarists utilize modes, but most mainstream musicians just use the major and minor scales.

Take Metallica's black album for example, most people know what their songs sound like. They use minor pentatonic a LOT, as well as the natural minor scale, and the phyrgian mode. BB King plays mainly the blues scale, but he plays some Dorian elements sometimes too. Clapton uses mainly major and minor pentatonic. Eric Johnson uses a lot of Pentatonics, as well as major, minor, and dorian.

The chords people play over affects their sound a lot. For example, a lot of blues players will play the blues scale over a major progression.

My suggestion: learn the seven modes of the major scale and the major and minor pentatonic scales. This will keep you busy for quite a while, and it will give you a pretty good toolbox from which to draw forth the particular sounds you're looking for.

okey thanks a lot guys that's something that'll keep me busy this summer, but i think i'll try to know the pentatonic scale even better cause i been only playing for 2 years and a half.

Thanks again,

and how much time have u been playing now??

How much time has it taken to you to succesfully improvise a good rock solo whenever u want to?

I've been playing for three years now, and me and my two friends who play bass and drums can go up on stage, quickly whisper a key and maybe a few chords and can improvise whole songs (we play instrumental). Crowds can't tell that we're making it up as we go along. Luckily, I started learning scales right when I started playing.

That sounds like it was awesome! Would it have been recorded, by any chance? Perhaps you could post a clip.

Can I have his phone number? I'm pretty sure my cell pone has freee long distance :)

ok now let's say i've learned all the modes figures and stuff. How can i know in a song or piece if i can use a mode to improviste?

I mean if there's this guy for example playing something in a minor could i use a mode?

Thanks

Originally posted by msinia
ok now let's say i've learned all the modes figures and stuff. How can i know in a song or piece if i can use a mode to improviste?

I mean if there's this guy for example playing something in a minor could i use a mode?

Thanks

If you learn them you'll know... The mode or scale you're using
mainly depends on the chord progression .

Ok i've been reading some stuff on the site but have ended up confused. Normally on a song for example, you use all root notes for one mode, or you use 1 root note for every mode? Hope i'm clear enough. In both ways you end up getting 7 scales or positions but i don't what you usually have to do.


Thanks in advance,

Originally posted by msinia
Normally on a song for example, you use all root notes for one mode, or you use 1 root note for every mode? Hope i'm clear enough.

Actualy I didn't get what you mean, but anyway here's how modes work...

Let's say we have a Cmajor scale (for the ease of learning you should start with Cmaj since there ain't no sharps or flats).

The notes are C D E F G A B [c] ... That's called the Ionian mode or the major scale (key) , starting with C and ending with a C, that's the root note of t ..
How about playing the same notes (without inserting any sharps or flats) , but starting and ending with the second note of the major key which is D in this case... That's the D dorian mode (D E F G A B C [d]) .. you've just changed the root note into D.

Play the same notes starting from the E (3rd note) , you get an E phrygian... got it?

Here's how they relate to the major key:
=============================

1st Ionian
2nd Dorian
3rd Phrygian
4th Lydian
5th Mixolydian
6th Aeolian
7th Locrian


Do the same thing with other keys...

I didn't want to make it a longer post, so I hope this is clear enough...

[Edited by SLY on 01-13-2003 at 06:22 AM]

you can make some pretty damn good stuff with the pentatonic scales. i'm trying to learn modes with varying success and the pentatonic scales come very easily. you can burn up the fretboard with them and you can make some melodic stuff with it too. i love the pentatonic scales, but i want to learn modes to get a deeper understanding of the music and get some more possible material.
ah well, it's all good.

Originally posted by SLY

Originally posted by msinia
Normally on a song for example, you use all root notes for one mode, or you use 1 root note for every mode? Hope i'm clear enough.

Actualy I didn't get what you mean, but anyway here's how modes work...

Let's say we have a Cmajor scale (for the ease of learning you should start with Cmaj since there ain't no sharps or flats).

The notes are C D E F G A B [c] ... That's called the Ionian mode or the major scale (key) , starting with C and ending with a C, that's the root note of t ..
How about playing the same notes (without inserting any sharps or flats) , but starting and ending with the second note of the major key which is D in this case... That's the D dorian mode (D E F G A B C [d]) .. you've just changed the root note into D.

Play the same notes starting from the E (3rd note) , you get an E phrygian... got it?

Here's how they relate to the major key:
=============================

1st Ionian
2nd Dorian
3rd Phrygian
4th Lydian
5th Mixolydian
6th Aeolian
7th Locrian


Do the same thing with other keys...

I didn't want to make it a longer post, so I hope this is clear enough...

[Edited by SLY on 01-13-2003 at 06:22 AM]

yeah i totally understand how that works. But here is my doubt.

Each mode lets say as the one you used E Phrygian for example has drawings as the pentatonic scale? How many? 5 too?

Thanks in advance,


P.D: Listening to for the love of god as i'm writing this... man, Vai is really wicked.

Originally posted by aiwass
Pentatonic scales are modes with some of the notes taken out. I prefer to have more notes at hand.

yeah i prefer that too... in a pentatonic scale you don't have note ranges of half steps right? The only way is to combine the major and minor pentatonic to get that right??
Thanks

msinia, I'm assuming by "drawings" you mean scale patterns. The 5 scale patterns of the pentatonic scale are not the only scale patterns for the pentatonic scale, they are just the most common.

As for the modes, they each have one common 6th string root, but disregarding the root, there are 7 scale patterns per mode, but they are common to each mode, so in essence, the modes have only 7 scale patterns total.

The number of 6th string root patterns for any given scale is usually the same as the number of notes within the given scale... Notice that pentatonic scale has 5 notes, and 5 patterns, the modes have 7 notes and 7 patterns.

Originally posted by TheDirt
msinia, I'm assuming by "drawings" you mean scale patterns. The 5 scale patterns of the pentatonic scale are not the only scale patterns for the pentatonic scale, they are just the most common.

As for the modes, they each have one common 6th string root, but disregarding the root, there are 7 scale patterns per mode, but they are common to each mode, so in essence, the modes have only 7 scale patterns total.

The number of 6th string root patterns for any given scale is usually the same as the number of notes within the given scale... Notice that pentatonic scale has 5 notes, and 5 patterns, the modes have 7 notes and 7 patterns.

yeah i mean patterns, im used to calling them that here in Argentina.
But what i still don't understand is what exactly the concept of mode is. I mean, does E Phrigian have 7 patterns?

E Phyrgian has as many patterns as you can think of ways to play it.

You could play it like this

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------12-14-|
|---------12-14-15-------|
|12-13-15----------------|

or this...

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|---------------10-12-14-|
|------10-12-14----------|
|12-13-------------------|

or this...

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|-------------------9----|
|-----------9-10-12------|
|---8-10-12--------------|
|12----------------------|

You could incorporate slides...

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------14-15-17/19-|
|12-13-15/17-------------|

or up a single string...

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|0-1-3-5-7-8-10-12-------|

See what I mean? The possibilities are endless. However, the main 7 patterns to play modes are 6th string root patterns which are named so that, when played from the 6th string root up to its octave, you get a certain mode. i.e. - the Ionian pattern is such

|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------------------|
|------------4-5---------|
|------3-5-7-------------|
|3-5-7-------------------|

This is the pattern to create an Ionian scale from whatever root note you start on, which in this case is G Ionian, BUT, depending on the chords you're playing over, this could be viewed as perhaps an E Aeolian scale starting and ending on the 3rd note.

If you're playing over a recording that's banging out a G major chord every quarter note, this is going to ound like G Ionian, but if you're playing over a recording that's banging out an E Minor chord every beat, it'll sound like E Aoelian... Modes are all in the chords...

That make sense?

So using a mode means using the 7 notes it's made of?

Originally posted by msinia
So using a mode means using the 7 notes it's made of?

That's right... But you can always include some accidentals & stuff... Be creative !



And yeah, Vai is definitly the wickiest of all the wicked . ;)