Stuck in the "BOX" need some help

I must amend.
The math in terms of work is staggering.
21 X 12 in just one position.
21 X 12 + 5 or 7 and or variations.
Melding into pentatonics 5 X 2 + 21 X 12 + 5... (it's actually greater or a bigger equation)

I'd hate to do this on paper. I discovered the other method, by doing it on paper. (before the first Apple)

Memorizing interval shapes, 5 basic chord forms,5 pentatonic shapes used two ways, 7 major scale shapes altered two more ways, my previous modes rule, covers just about every theoretical and mechanical item in todays music on guitar in a nutshell. I am not covering technique,
timing, etc., just very basic to extremely advanced music notes for guitar simply put. This information can be put to use, immediately. When in doubt, one can always just simply look at the guitar fretboard and find the correct answer.
The guitar looks the same, all over the instrument.
Be able to say out loud: A B C D E F G frontwards and backwards from any point, faster than your name. (hope it's not Ed or Ty) BC and EF (natural half step rule) are ALWAYS next to each other.
All other letters have a space or fret between them. The spaces are named going up in sound # sharp, going down b flat.
Standard chord progresstions, stated earlier, pretty much covers everything else. This is the system. Any person can take it in any direction wanted. From basic to advanced. It covers most if not all forms of music and guitar of today.

That is pretty advanced, and if your a beginner learning modes it is hard to grasp. I know it works and it can save time when finding the right mode to play. Learning is a different question. You can't just look at a Em chord and know you what mode to learn. It's could be E dorian, E phrygian, or E aeolion. Just an Em doesn't give you enough info, visual or aural. You would need to know what degree it is in the song's key and/or an extension. So if it's your first time tackling modes, it doesn't make much sense. To me and you yeah, cause we understand what is needed to make it work. Plus this isn't a visual forum so you can see it. That's why I say make a site about it, Griphon.

The thing is it's hard for a beginner. The way to get a complete understanding of everything in music is to what I would call cataloging a musical mind. This mean everything has it's own place which doesn't refer to other things. You learn a scale, you learn the scale by itself. Without having to compare and contrast it to something else. It's like library in your mind. When you look for a book, you shouldn't have to find three other books before you find the one your looking for. So you have all the scales in their own files, and as you learn more and more about each scale. You put more stuff in those files. You don't want a scarttered mind when it comes to music, you want everything to be organized in your mind.

About the 21 x 12 thing. Once you learn a mode and you know it's purpose and how it is made. You only have to learn that mode once. So your only learning 21 modes. Another thing, when you want to play G mixolydian, without thinking you should know the key would be C. There's nothing hard about figuring that out.

About all the other scales. You should COMPLETELY learn the Major/minor modes first, then move on the the harmonic minor and melodic minor ones later. Their modes are mostly altered scales, or scales that don't find much use in modern music anyways. Simply cause, very few songs are written in those scales. Another thing, you must know a great deal about theory before you can even use them to there purpose. As for Pentatonics, they have the same modes as the Major/minor scale with some notes taken out. If you know the major/minor modes already than the transition to learning the pentatonic ones is simple.

Once you learn how modes are formed, it's easy to figure them out on any scale. Even the exotic ones.

I truly, honestly and simply do not wish to offend any one's method or point of view. This site is called guitartricks.
What I am saying, This is a Major Trick. From Brent Mason to Steve Vai, these people worked through this system, the hard way and their way. This is simply, an easier way to get their result, without spending tons of money, and added work. This "is" what they are doing, regardless of theory, technique or even point of view.

That's rad, dewd. I'm not saying your view is bad or anything of that sort, it's just what you have is hard for a beginner to comprehend. I wish you would stop taking it any other way. I'm trying to tell you something. :) You need to make a website about this. So you can illustrate chord diagrams, and whatever else is used to see through what you are saying. It's clearly something you can't completely understand and apply with just words.

Remember your probably going to be showing this to a beginner, or maybe an intermediate. People like me already have a system that works, so they will probably find less use of it. Sorry, but what I do works great for me, and it's probably the same for alot of people who have already learned these modes.

I am sorry, profusely, sorry, I don't think that way.
It takes too much time. Time is a big deal to me, not only in music.

I've wanted to do a theory web page. I simply don't understand how the computer mechanics work. Where are the fretboards? How can I use them in my context? The way "I" want. It's simply another guitar trick! It's a joke. Fretboards exist on the internet, how does one manipulate them? I just don't understand. How does this work? Help?

Here's an example. Jay Leno, and Elton John playing (01.15.03) Saturday Night. How old is this. A simple
I bVII IV V progression. (in C) Let's beat simplicity to death. A very good exercise for practising is to turn the radio on and jam.

Sorry I missed out on this debate, it looks like It was a good one. I've used both your approaches in the past and then decided to create one that satisfied my own needs, a system that uses triad shapes that enables you too improvise with all 12 tones at any given time, I call it the triad method. I spent about 5 years working it out on paper an utilizing it in my playing and teaching, I finally got around to putting it in a book format about a year ago but have been unsuccessfull in getting it published. All the publishing companies I've sent it out too were very impressed with it but said they probably wouldn't be able to market it and make any money, the sad thing is there probably right. Now if I would have called it the Learn To PLay Like Kirk Hammett Method that would have been a different story. Again, sorry I missed this debate.

Publish it on the internet Chris. I know it's probably alot of hard work since you would have to rewrite it again. But at least people will see it, and no publishing arse clown can turn you down. :) Personally I'd like to hear about it.

Unfortunately my computer crashed about 2 months ago and along w/it went my book, I have 1 copy left from when I had them printed up to solicitate publishers. I wouldn't even know where to begin with publishing on the web, I'm not that computer savy. Plus it was a lot of work, tons of graphs and charts etc.., any way it was personally rewarding, I got a lot out of it and it has taking my playing to a level I'm extremely happy with. On to other things at the moment, finishing up a book on fingerstyle Beatle arrangements, hoping I'll have better luck getting this one published, it's a little more mainstream.

I also use a triadic method and the system I earlier proposed. Once pentatonic players use the earlier method, triadic will give more control. There is a triadic method published long ago by George Van Eps, the father of this idea.

Yeah, I am familiar w/that one, mine's a little different then that, the triads are more of a visual thing w/mine to identify where the chord tones exist inside of the scale fingerings. The improvisational theory behind it was based off what Charlie Parker did, using all 12 tones to create with. What I do is place a note within one of 3 catagories: A tones (chord tones R 3 5) B tones (diatonic scale tones other then the R 3 5) C tones (non diatonic tones, which I reffer to as approach tones)

I sort'a do the same thing. This has become so old hat, I don't think about it any more. I've been retired for quite some time and the system I've learned so long ago, brings back a lot of stuff. I do excercises that I know are not in print. Not many, but pertinent to all forms of music. They are brain and physical mechanics oriented.