Prejudice against certain techniques/styles


bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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10/08/2014 2:27 am
Hi everyone!

I wanted to get some of your input about this subject: I've been noticing more and more how many players have this prejudice against certain techniques: mainly sweep picking and playing fast in general. I've heard quite a few players talk about how "Anyone who sweep picks is lame," "Or, that technique is a waste of time; anyone can learn it if they take the time."

But it seems to me that many people who say this CANNOT do the technique themselves. So is it just jealousy? I understand how it might be a bit much if an entire song is made up of sweeps, but adding in a few sweeps here and there in a song or solo sounds amazing! And isn't that what it's all about? What sounds good? "If it sounds good, it IS good."

To get an idea of what i'm talking about, watch this video of Marty Friedman talking about this. Listen to what he says starting at 1:02 in the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMkb4pxOc30

Who is he to say what's lame? Everyone has their own preference and taste. And it seems like if someone is worried about what OTHER guitarists will think of them, they're not in it for the right reasons.

~Rusty
# 1
SJWeissen
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SJWeissen
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10/08/2014 8:33 pm
Personally I think many of ideas Marty expresses in his Full Shred videos are great and mostly true but tend to be over the head or above the skill level of many people, myself included. I don’t know if you kept watching that video or have seen others in the series, but for the most part his message is do your own thing. Almost all of the Full Shred videos he repeats over and over you have to find your own style. I think he is aiming most of the videos not at beginning students but at fairly accomplished players. His point is if you simply practice exercises over and over for speed but never explore putting your own spin on it you’re just a robot not a musician. I find his main point in most of these videos is technique is necessary but not the end goal. I think many of his videos are mis-titled Like the one linked too “How to play fast arpeggios without sweep picking”. The video isn’t going to teach you to play fast arpeggios with or without sweep picking, but teach you to get out of your box and labels once you have can already physically play those things.
# 2
bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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10/08/2014 9:32 pm
Yeah I've seen the rest of his videos as well. I understand the overall message he was giving, I was just using that one part as an example to what I was saying earlier. There's definitely a resistance to certain techniques.
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10/10/2014 3:19 pm
Imo he shouldn't call sweep picking lame!
I' ll leave it at that.
# 4
bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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10/10/2014 9:11 pm
I second that notion...
# 5
maggior
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maggior
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10/10/2014 9:54 pm
Just like any other technique...as long as you don't abuse it, use it where appropriate, and it sounds good, what's the problem?

Take a simple technique like a pick slide. You certainly don't want to that every other bar in a solo! It might be pushing it using it more than once in a single song or solo! :-).

In another forum, a discussion ensued about speed playing vs. slow/"feeling" playing. Folks get their backs up in both camps and it gets ugly quickly!!! Friendly folks all of a sudden turned into demons!

So, you'll get the shredders who will sweep until the cows come home and scoff at the blues players who play slower runs. On the other side, you'll get the blues players who will scoff at the shredders accusing them of wanking.

In both cases, they need to grow up IMHO! Everybody has their style and a way they choose to express themselves on the guitar. A mature player will not look down on any other player because of their chosen style of play.

So in general, there is definitely a prejudice on both sides against varying techniques. Just take it from where it comes...if shredding is your thing and people can't accept it, well too bad for them...as long as you don't put them down for their chosen style of playing.
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bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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10/10/2014 11:28 pm
Well said. See, I actually like all styles (except Country lol). I'll sit and jam to a slow blues backing track, and then I'll go work on speed building exercises. I see the appeal of both and both styles give me enjoyment.

It's actually more rare for people to talk down on blues or slower playing. It's way more common for some guitarists to talk down on shredding or "noodling."

I think the simple reason is: these people can't do it! So instead of admitting that they just can't do it, they try to find a reason why they DON'T WANT to do it so they won't have to admit they just can't.

Because looking back, just about every person I can think of who talked down on fast playing or sweep picking couldn't do either. I think I'm on to something here...
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john of MT
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10/11/2014 1:28 am
"Can't" can be misleading. First, it might imply there are techniques or genres/sub-genres that are beyond the reach of the player regardless of the amount of desire or the amount of practice. I'm still optimistic enough (or naïve enough ;) ) to not believe that. On the other hand, "can't" could be a reference to a point in time..."can't" do it now 'cause the effort hasn't been made. That's much more acceptable to me and ultimately leads to choices between genres and techniques. Some just don't care that much for shredding or fast playing. I've read there are the same pro and con arguments about fast playing in jazz. That all comes down to personal taste. Shoot! Rockradio.com lists nearly 40 rock sub-genres (just rock!) and some of my favorites aren't on the list. :rolleyes:

Practice to play what you want to play but don't expect everyone to want to listen to it. Or, practice to play what your audience wants to hear. Or both. :D
"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
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maggior
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maggior
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10/11/2014 3:03 am
Originally Posted by: bbzswa777I think the simple reason is: these people can't do it! So instead of admitting that they just can't do it, they try to find a reason why they DON'T WANT to do it so they won't have to admit they just can't.

Because looking back, just about every person I can think of who talked down on fast playing or sweep picking couldn't do either. I think I'm on to something here...


That's been my experience, but in the flame war in this other guitar forum, the shredders were the ones on the defensive without being provoked. They were complaining that they get accused of playing with "no soul" or "no feeling". It had me shaking my head.
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bbzswa777
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10/11/2014 3:23 am
If they weren't provoked then that's pretty stupid of them! But I can kind of understand their frustration, because I've heard the same thing "fast playing is emotionless or souless." Which makes no sense. You can get just as much emotion out of any piece of music regardless of speed. The tempo definitely affects music, but there are so many different combinations.

But the original shredders chose to play fast because speed evokes aggression. It can make something sound more powerful or emotional. But I don't have to tell you that! I'm sure you're already aware. :)
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SJWeissen
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10/12/2014 4:09 pm
Originally Posted by: bbzswa777
I think the simple reason is: these people can't do it! So instead of admitting that they just can't do it, they try to find a reason why they DON'T WANT to do it so they won't have to admit they just can't.

Because looking back, just about every person I can think of who talked down on fast playing or sweep picking couldn't do either. I think I'm on to something here...


The argument that people talk down about something because they can't do it may hold water in many places and arguments. However in this current thread/discussion I don't think that holds any water. This discussion started with a comment made by Marty Friedman in one of his Guitar World videos. I understand Marty can be a polarizing figure and while many people have strong opinions both positive and negative about Marty's playing no one has ever accused him of not being able to play fast or shred.
# 11
bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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10/13/2014 1:32 am
Actually, the discussion was started by me talking about how many people have this prejudice against certain styles/techniques. That video of Marty was just an example of what I was talking about in my original post. The fact that he can actually play fast and well is a rare exception of the kind of people that usually say those things.

Just because he's an exception to the rule doesn't make that point not valid in this thread. So yes, this point may not apply to that particular video, but it definitely relates to my entire original post.

So if you read the rest of my first post, I think what I said holds a lot of water! :)
# 12
SJWeissen
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10/13/2014 2:36 am
Originally Posted by: bbzswa777Actually, the discussion was started by me talking about how many people have this prejudice against certain styles/techniques. That video of Marty was just an example of what I was talking about in my original post. The fact that he can actually play fast and well is a rare exception of the kind of people that usually say those things.

Just because he's an exception to the rule doesn't make that point not valid in this thread. So yes, this point may not apply to that particular video, but it definitely relates to my entire original post.

So if you read the rest of my first post, I think what I said holds a lot of water! :)


If so many people have prejudice because they can't do it, it should be very easy to point to an example (or many), but no other example was given. That is pure hyperbole with nothing concrete supporting the argument.
# 13
bbzswa777
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10/13/2014 10:09 pm
You serious? I'm sorry I didn't video-record anybody that said that to me at the time lol. It has been discussed in many conversations with my friends, people in other bands, employees at Guitar Center, etc.. The whole world isn't on Youtube. And I wasn't speaking of famous guitarists only. I happened to come across that video of Marty and it reminded me of how many other people I've heard say similar things IN MY OWN LIFE so I started this thread.

I'm sure I could have searched for something that would apply on Youtube, I just didn't feel like I needed to... ???

It seems like you're taking this personally, and there's no need. Just because I feel this way doesn't mean I think it applies to EVERYONE. I'm sure there are people out there who could play fast and just don't want to. I wasn't speaking in absolutes.
# 14

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