Music or Lyrics first?

Hi!

I was wondering how other people go about writing songs - what comes first for you? Where does it all begin? I am most frequently asked whether I write music or lyrics first - it is that simple for some people?

Looking forward to hearing from you guys

Dielle
:)

I think it depends on the person. I've met songwriters who start both ways.
It's almost like meeting guitar players that are self-taught vs. theory based players. Or people who like math compared to people who like art.

Some people I've worked with spend a lot of time writing out lyrics or poetry and the music almost comes as an afterthought.
With me, it's the opposite. I have a hard time even listening to lyrics and vocals in a song and concentrate on the backup musicians.

It kind of depends on the song too. Sometimes you come up with a really great hook or saying and end up writing the music around that.
Other times, the music almost makes you want to say certain words because of the way the rhythm sounds.

hi Dielle

What do you hear first? You can be at your instrument with a chord structure or a mood or driving your car and have the chorus pop in your head... There is no right or wrong or official way. That is the beauty of writing YOUR songs it is done YOUR way.... ;) Just sit down and start.... :)

Hi, thanks for your replies.
I totally agree that it is a really personal thing, and I find that I start with a 'seed' - that can be a sound, or a mood, or something that has happened that's provoked a thought, a rythm on a train, or a dripping tap. Then I nurture the seed until it blooms.

I don't really have an official process that I follow, and was just wondering if other people have a stricter method. I have found that the more I try to discipline my method, the more it restricts my imagination. Does anyone else feel like that?

I can see the 'maths vs art' argument very clearly - and I'm not that good at maths! I get the impression that most commercial hits are written in this wa though - what do you think?

Dielle

I love this sort of chat, it's great! :)

I had a mountain of stuff I wrote and I hated every last bit of it. Nothin' better than being hyper-critical. That, and I know that my stuff did not measure up to what I listened to for enjoyment. In hindsight, I know that I was trying too hard to write the coolest song ever and not writing what I felt. Dumb.

That said, if I wrote anything that I thought would not induce vomiting, it usually came from the music first. I gotta have the groove or vibe before the mood is set for the lyrics. Occasionally a phrase would roll through my head that was catchy but it usually came through formed in a melody or some rhythmic pattern so it still was anchored to music.

For me its hard to write a song i with out knowing what the tempo is because some time i write a slow song then it ends up being fast :D so try doing the music and lyrics at the same time its hard but its worth it. :)

Here is the way I do it. First off, I always have something to either write on or record on. I have lost some very good material because I couldnt remember. I keep a pen and writing tablet at my bedside. My girlfriend hates it when I wake up at 3am and start writing!!! LOL
I usually start with the music or a melody and expand from that basic idea. I have a cheap tape recorder that I keep in my home studio. That way I dont have to turn everything on in order to record. Just hit the button and go. Writing down notes as I move along. For me, the lyrics just come out eventually. I dont like to force a song and sometimes it will take a year just to finish one song. In my opinion, the harder you try to write a song, the more it sounds "forced". Let it flow and take your time. If it was supposed to be a song, it will be. I keep a folder with every lyrical idea that pops into my feeble brain. One simple saying or sentance can turn into an incredible song. and remember, if it sounds wrong, it is wrong.
-Shawn Smith

That's the way it comes to me too for some reason.
I don't know why but I can be half asleep and I'll get this great idea and I always think... "aw... I'll remember it in the morning". Next day I don't have a clue what the song was.

Now I do the same thing... keep a digital tape recorder around and even if I just hum the notes into it or whatever, at least I'll remember what I was thinking the night before.

(an iPhone is awesome btw: perfect for recording quick notes or even 4 track recordings... hell, you can even take a pic of yourself and track where you were with the GPS and use a guitar application to figure out the leads
Then you can record your basic ideas in Cubase, convert them to MP3's and store them on the phone and use a pair of BlueTooth Sunglasses to listen to your own song while you're in the car. :)

i always get a couple of riffs going, then i make some lyrics to fit it.

i think it depends more on the style.

if its death metal, you probably dont need to worry too much about lyrics until after you write the music.

if its a slow acoustic peice, i would write out the lyrics first.

someimes i write a song on guitar and then have an extremely hard time fitting lyrics in, so i usually do lyrics first.

I've got one rule: finish what I start. Otherwise I end up with a bunch of half baked ideas all over my disc and I'll never finish anything. So, good or bad, I end up with complete songs.

Usually I start with the music. I'm basically a rhythm player so 9 times out of 10 I start with chord progressions or a riff and a beat. If I get a really good groove I try and come up with a title and start writing from there. I have long list of titles I've collected. Most of the time a chorus suggests itself. I try not to be too formulaic but if I loose interest while listening to the song I'll try and figure out a bridge to break up the monotony. I also work with different instruments (midi keyboards) so I can arrange out much of the monotony by introducing new sounds where appropriate.

I try to remain flexible during the process and much of the time I end up far from where I started. Occasionally I like the end result.

Let this Christmas be glooming and why don't you try to tune a song on guitar.To teach yourself how to play guitar will take some effort from you of course. The online programs today takes you by the hand and teaches you everything from the basic stuff and to the more advanced techniques.
Today it's actually possible to teach yourself how to play the guitar online. You can learn the chords, scales, barre. Different styles like country, rock, classical, blues or any other style you might like. This is also something you get with the online courses, you're not stuck with a teacher who's a perfect in classical music, when you want to learn how to play country.

For more details:
totallyguitars.com

My wife just got me a book for Christmas titled "Songwriters on Songwriting", and it is EXCELLENT!!

http://www.amazon.com/Songwriters-Songwriting-Expanded-Paul-Zollo/dp/0306812657/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230955903&sr=8-1

It consists of a whole bunch of interviews done with many different singer/songwriters, and how they get their inspiration, what their songwriting process is, and what they were thinking when they wrote some of their songs. It includes interviews with Mark Knopfler, Tom Petty, Jackson Browne, and Frank Zappa, just to name a few. I absolutely recommend getting this book!! You'll notice each person does things a little differently.

I am not a songwriter....ive done some a long time ago but nothing recent

but when I thought about this post I realized I have always been a writer
I wrote before I learned the guitar
so I write something and think hey can this be a song? I think because in my development...the writing bug bit me first.

I am sure there are people who play very well and design something and say this has the potential to be a song...

Sometimes it happens that way, but most of the time I have a good hook for the song. Sometimes I'll start out with a riff, or some kind of signature lick for that song. I've also just sat down and wrote a verse, or a chorus and then give it a signature riff.

I'd say most everybody does it differently, in one way or another. Putting it all together, is when I start to feel like it's a song. Sometimes I can hear other instrument parts in my head, and then it's time to record it, and send a copy to Library of Congress for copyright.

If writing is something you enjoy, the guitar is a great tool to make it even better. Play the chords you hear in your head, and remember that words have a rhythm too.

have a great weekend, and keep at it.

JD

I just wanted to add an update to this since I've recently been using a piece of software called MasterWriter.


I'm not endorsing them or receiving any compensation etc. bit just bought a copy and I'm finding it to be an endless supply of ideas when writing new lyrics.
Even just coming up with song titles or general ideas for songs it's coming it really handing.

You can probably look it up on Google but it has spaces for writing lyrics... then if you get stuck for a rhyme or idea, you just highlight a word and get a full list of rhymes, alternate ideas, sayings and sentences that will help you complete your song.

Like I said, I'm not endorsing these guys or receiving any compensation, but it's been a great help for me personally, finishing off songs where I've gotten stuck for ideas.

Another thing to consider is how set you really are on putting words to the music. Maybe its just me, but I often times find it very hard to lower the music enough to let words slip in...Thats not to say a song written with lyrics cant very very full and complete sounding, but as someone else mentioned in this thread it draws attention away from the performance piece. So I guess it would really depend on what you want to showcase, your lyrics, or your playing capacity.
Generally think about it this way...when you listen to a piece, and they go into that really amazing instrumental section...the words trail off. And obviously this is intentional, as the instruments are going on showcase rather than any words. I personally see this as a completely viable way of writing a complete song, and words are something that can be left to every individual listener.
In that train of thinking, anything you write, lyrical or instrumental, will be at the mercy of every person who ever hears it. Thats not a bad thing, or a good thing. Just a fact of the music. When I am asked why I dont put words to my music, the only thing I can say is I would rather they decide what the music is worth, and if they want to put words to it, they are more than welcome to.
End of the day, it comes down to expressing yourself in the best way you can. If that involves lyrics, so be it. If not, you're still golden.

Originally Posted by: liarcangelAnother thing to consider is how set you really are on putting words to the music. Maybe its just me, but I often times find it very hard to lower the music enough to let words slip in...Thats not to say a song written with lyrics cant very very full and complete sounding, but as someone else mentioned in this thread it draws attention away from the performance piece. So I guess it would really depend on what you want to showcase, your lyrics, or your playing capacity.

Just a mindset thought about music v. lyrics; I find that if I think of them as having an alternate breathing pattern, it helps balance between the two. Since singing literally requires breathing and even the best singers need to get a full breath at some point, at that point where a singer needs to gather air, should be a little bit of that musical flourish. In writing in this mindset, it seems that instead of thinking in terms of instrumentation, that the writing considers vocal 'instrumentation' as part of the arrangement and part of the ebb and flow (inhale/exhale) between song and lyric. Also, it helps to understand the lyrical flow if you have a vocal melody in mind as your writing...Then it's just a matter of them pesky words and making them cool and not dork-like.

Just a penny of a thought.

I think its interesting when I read the words of a song that I love and Im like wait...thats it? Hardly any lyrics and very simplistic repetitive ones at that. Showing me that in that case the music is what is holding the words.

But then I listen to some songs and the lyrics are so intense and deep...and the music gently folds around the words...almost like there has to be a balance...know what I mean?