Fingers, strings and all them things

Hi folks, as I stated in my original post, I am 68 years old and have been trying desperately all of my life to play guitar without success. This will probably be my last ditch effort. I have quality instruments in both acoustic and electric. Now come the questions and comments I have and responses both pro and con will be most welcome. To begin with, I may be wrong, but it seems to me that most really good artists seem to have long slender fingers that are deft and seem to have a life of their own. My fingers are short and small. Could this be part of my problem. I practice regularly for hours at a clip (part of my problem maybe?) Now, I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer who has had to qualify with a weapon his entire life and for several years was a certified instructor. This required extreme and concise muscle control in the wrists and fingers and as a result, I am wondering if I have a tendency to put too much pressure on the strings and at the same time restrict smooth chord changes. The dreaded pause between changes. Secondly, is it recommended that I start out with light gauge strings on both acoustic and electric until I get the hang of things, and is their an advantage learning on either the acoustic or electric or vice versa? I could never get the "F" chord down either, any suggestions there? Finally, with my short little fingers, instead of gripping the neck in the middle back of the instrument, should I try it with my thumb overlapping the fret board? As previously stated, all comments and suggestions are welcome, including hang it up and try another instrument old man.
Thank you folks,
Dick :D

Originally Posted by: diminHi folks, as I stated in my original post, I am 68 years old and have been trying desperately all of my life to play guitar without success. This will probably be my last ditch effort. I have quality instruments in both acoustic and electric. Now come the questions and comments I have and responses both pro and con will be most welcome. To begin with, I may be wrong, but it seems to me that most really good artists seem to have long slender fingers that are deft and seem to have a life of their own. My fingers are short and small. Could this be part of my problem. I practice regularly for hours at a clip (part of my problem maybe?) Now, I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer who has had to qualify with a weapon his entire life and for several years was a certified instructor. This required extreme and concise muscle control in the wrists and fingers and as a result, I am wondering if I have a tendency to put too much pressure on the strings and at the same time restrict smooth chord changes. The dreaded pause between changes. Secondly, is it recommended that I start out with light gauge strings on both acoustic and electric until I get the hang of things, and is their an advantage learning on either the acoustic or electric or vice versa? I could never get the "F" chord down either, any suggestions there? Finally, with my short little fingers, instead of gripping the neck in the middle back of the instrument, should I try it with my thumb overlapping the fret board? As previously stated, all comments and suggestions are welcome, including hang it up and try another instrument old man.
Thank you folks,
Dick :D

wow you got it all here.
first have you ever seen bb kings fingers? they are short and stubby like mine too. that mind of their own deftness comes from hours of practice and knowing excatly what to do next.
you say you were a firearms instructor for a while? do you crank down with all your strenght on the trigger? or do you squeeze it lightly? it may take a while but remember its the same thing a confident relaxed had has a lot more control than tight nervous hand. dont worry about the pause between chords as long as you are getting the right fingerings after the pause with practice that will go away.
light gague strings will help you out when you start because you hands/fingers wont get as fatigued as quickly.

||----1-------
||----1-------
||----2-------
||----3-------
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if this is the F major your talking about i find it easiers to barre the first for string with my first finger then only barrre the top two.

as for gripping the neck you do need to get propper placement when your first learing or youll devlope bad habits(i know that one for sure) if you need to raise the guitar all the up so its almost at your chin, just kidding. but you might need to raise it up some. there are tutorils are thiis site that will tell you how to hold it.

and finally enjoy yourself have some fun write kiddy songs for you grandkids(if you have them) write love songs for the love of your life. they dont have to be perfect or even good but they are a great way to practice.

Those guys with the long, slender, nimble fingers probably have an advantage over us short, stubby-fingered guys, but that doesn't mean we can't play. When I was younger, I had a couple of teachers refuse to give me lessons and tell me to hang it up because my hands were too small. (One even told me he wouldn't take a student that couldn't wrap his hand around the neck and touch thumb to fingertip on every finger at the widest part of the neck.) Luckily, I was a stubborn little cuss, so I made it a goal to prove them both wrong. I'm not a good player by any means, but I can play, and I've improved steadily since I've started taking the lessons here.

BrokenJera gave you some good advice on the pressure. Think about your shooting experience. It's a bit like shooting a rifle, if you jerk the trigger hard, you're going to pull the shot off target. If you squeeze it off gently, the shot goes right where you want it, and you don't have to reset as much for the next shot (or chord). You only need to use as much pressure as it takes to give you a clear note.

I started learning on an electric, and didn't pick up an acoustic until later. A lot of people recommend that you start learning on an acoustic because it's a little more difficult to play and its hard to hide your mistakes. Some of the instructors here may disagree with me, but I think you should play what you're more comfortable playing. The more you enjoy it, the more you'll play and the better you'll get. I like to play acoustic, but I love to play electric. Either way, make sure you've got a good comfortable action on your strings. A high action can be part of the problem if you're pressing too hard.

F is a pain. I don't know that anyone ever really gets comfortable playing it. :D The only advice I can give you there is play it and play it and play it and play it until your fingers start to recognize it.

I am comfortable playing F but only because I don't play it properly.. hehe..

I play F like this:
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||----3-------
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||----1-------

So technically it is an Fadd7 I suppose.. but whatever it is.. it still sounds good in the place of most F Major.. not all though.. and that's where the barred chord comes into play.

light if you moveds your hand just right you could play that with your thumb rather than a barre but that might be a little harder.

and the way i understand it, if you using the correct notes its never wrong.

i wanted to put this in my original post but i didnt have time.

dimin you have an advatage over almost every other guitar player in the world. you already know and have taught others about muscles memory (even if you didnt know it). when a cop has to draw his gun he doesnt think hand to gun, pick up gun,raise gun, aim gun. it all happens automaticly. when you play and practice and practice the right ways you wont even have to think about what to do next youll do it automaticly. and since you already know the basics of how to teach your body, it should come easier to you.

Oh sorry.. I forgot to mention that I use my thumb for the F on the bottom-E string.. :)

Hey Dimin,

First off, welcome to GT, although I'm really new to this site as well. I hope this time around becomes a breakthrough for you in playing music. First, let me say, that I think I may have the world's smallest fingers for a guitarist (I'm male), and I've been rocking for 6 years now, not that it hasnt been a rough ride in the beginning.

I was taught on my history teacher's acoustic guitar, but I never owned one at the time. Barre chords were my biggest weakness for the longest time, and still are on heavier gauge strings on an acoustic. To this day, I still cant fully barre that "F" major chord on heavier gauge acoustic strings.

By the way, I think the chord he was talking about is this:

---------1-------------
---------1-------------
---------2-------------
---------3-------------
---------3-------------
---------1-------------


Let me tell you right now, that if you're fingers are anything like mine, perhaps you shouldnt worry about the heavier guage strings, as they will discourage your progress. I dont personally think it's a big deal to use light gauge strings on an acoustic instead of the "normal" heavier ones. That's just my opinion. ;)

You asked the best way to "grip" the instrument for barre chords, what I do is have the upper 1/3 of my thumb placed just below the middle of the back of the neck, it helps with pressure.

I dont believe there's a guitarist alive that hasnt dealt with what you are. Big hands or small hands, its a little tough at first.

That's an F Major barred chord yeh..

The one I meant was:
||-----|-----|-----|
||--1--|-----|-----|
||-----|--2--|-----|
||-----|-----|--3--|
||-----|-----|-----|
||--T--|-----|-----|

It's easier to play, if you can curl your thumb over the top, than the proper F chord:
||--1--|-----|-----|
||--1--|-----|-----|
||-----|--2--|-----|
||-----|-----|--3--|
||-----|-----|-----|
||-----|-----|-----|

And of course, as you have already pointed out, much easier than a barred chord... even though eventually we all have to learn to do barred chords in the end. :)

Originally Posted by: light487Oh sorry.. I forgot to mention that I use my thumb for the F on the bottom-E string.. :)

I've never been able to get the hang of fretting with my thumb. I've tried to teach myself to do it several times, but it just feels really awkward to me.

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the responses and want to take this opportunity to thank you all. Each response had valuable information in them and gave me enough encouragement where I just might lick (no pun intended) :D this thing this time. You all certainly gave me enough to experiment with the "F" major and I promise you I will work on it. I know this all depends on the individual, but given that all goes well and I start to put the pieces together, how long does it "usually" take before you can play something that sounds acceptable and you can semi-impress the family with. I know, it's a loaded question but I thought someone might be brave enough out there to give me a ball park answer. :o Again, I thank each and every one of you for all your help and encouragement and I'll try my best not to let you down. Move over Jimmy, I'm comin' out with a new version of Tribute to Rock N' Roll! :cool:

well how long it takes to play something that impresses your family depends on how easily your family is impressed.

just kidding
what is going to make the difference is how much time you put in. if you can put in an hour a day youll gain skill quickly. the biggest problem youll run into is where do i go from here. after you learn the beginner stuff but still havent advanced enough to understand the intermideate stuff. youll find a skill wall where most people (even me) start to fail and get frustrated. here on this site tons of people will help you out to get through this, but it all depends on how much you work at it. and like i said in my first post makeing up little song for your grandkids (if they are young) might help alot in the motivation department. they dont even have to be that good. just a few chords and as you learn maybe some lead lines to help you practice what your learning.

and keep at it soon there will be word of a new kick ass 68 yearold guitar player.

Originally Posted by: diminbut given that all goes well and I start to put the pieces together, how long does it "usually" take before you can play something that sounds acceptable and you can semi-impress the family with.

My family? It's been 20 years, and I'm still waiting to tell you. Not the most supportive bunch of my playing. :p

You'll be quicker to impress playing for the kids though. My son loves my playing. He's my biggest (read: only) fan.