seeking confirmation

I am working on a solo for a song and am trying to confirm the name of a chord.
the formula is

1(Db) 5(Ab) 7(C) 9(Eb) 12(Ab)

1st string 4th fret
2nd string 4th fret
3rd string 5th fret
4th string 6th fret
5th string 4th fret

The bass player is playing a Db

I think it is a DbMaj7add9

Can someone please verify this for me??
Thanks

Being that the Db chord structure is without a 3rd (Major or minor), the chord is neither Major nor minor, so to speak. With that exposed, I would say that the chord is a Dbsus2, because the Eb is taking the place of the missing 3rd.
From My understanding of theory, in order for the chord to be named
DbMaj7(9), the F note (M3) must be in the chord voicing and the 5th could become the optional note, if desired. Otherwise, the 7th interval just becomes an added note in the Suspended chord.
That's just my opinion of what this chord is.

Others may refer to it as a DbMaj9 (no 3rd), because it does have a M2 interval present.
Hope it helps....................

Yeah, I'd see it as a Dsus2 with the added seventh, so:

Dsus2add7 I guess...

Ok guys.
*It can't be sus2, because the Eb is a 9th from the root. Not a 2nd.
*Nor it is a maj7, since there is no M3.
*There is no chord named maj7add9. If you have the M7 and the 9th, it becomes a Maj9.
*Of all the notes in the scale, the 7th is not "available" as an added note in theory.
I think it is an Ab chord with a Db on the bass. Making it a Slash Chord named:

Ab/Db

Thanks for the info, The song is Louisiana Sunday afternoon by Diane shure, the next chord is Am7/11. each chord gets 2 measures and it repeats twice equaling 8 measures.
Any ideas for scales, arps or modes to play while soloing?

Wouldn't it be an inversion of an Absus4? It has the I, III, IV, V.

No, it’s not an Absus4.
Because the sus4 chord uses the 1,4,5...in this case… Ab, Db, Eb. (without the C note)

yeah he's right it's Ab/Db

the dude from live plays that chord in this vid, the second chord right at the start (he's playing F#/B):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--QBj4OyAaM

Nice job Equ. The chord makes sense and has a solid foundation.
Another thing that your explanation caused me to realize when focusing on a Major Barre Chord, is that the M3rd is actually a 10th from the Root and a 3rd from the Octave. So it's still a 3rd.
Looking further, I became somewhat confused though..................
Example;
If I play an "A" Major Barre Chord, C# is the M3rd, correct???
What happens if I play an "A7" chord?? Isn't C# still the 3rd even though the Octave is replaced by a b7th note??????????
I'm sure that there is a logical explanation for this, but I can't find it for the life of me.
If someone would be kind enough to shed some light on this grey area for me, I would really appreciate it.

Originally Posted by: slasnerI am working on a solo for a song and am trying to confirm the name of a chord ...
[/quote]
Any chord can be named by reference to any note. It is a matter of picking one note as a root and then identifying all the rest of the notes relative to that particular root.

Let's make D-flat the root:
A-flat is a 5th
C is a major 7th
E-flat is a 2nd or 9th
A-flat is another 5th - we will ignore any duplicates from here on out.

So it could be a D-flat, suspended 2, major 7th
[QUOTE=slasner]I think it is a DbMaj7add9

Close, but in order to call a 2nd or 9th an "added" you should have the 3rd in the chord and this one does not (no major 3rd F-flat or minor 3rd F). That's why I used the "suspended", because the 3rd has been "suspended by the presence of the 2nd".

Now, let's make A-flat the root:
D-flat is a 4th
C is a major 3rd
E-flat is a 5th

So, we have an A-flat (major implied) with an added 4th. It's added because the 3rd is also present. Since the 4th is on the bottom it can properlybe called an A-flat/D-flat. A slash chord with the bass note after the slash, like equator pointed out.

Now, let's make C the root:
D-flat is a flat 2nd or 9th
A-flat is a minor 6th or augmented 5th
E-flat is a minor 3rd

So, we have a C minor aug(+5) added flat 2nd (or 9th). Whew.

Now, let's make E-flat the root:
D-flat is a 2nd
C is a major 6th
A-flat is a 4th

So, we have an E-flat sus 4th (no 5th) maj 7th added 6th. Whew, again.

The first two are more efficient names, by far. That only reason to use something as convoluted as the last two is if the chord really functions that way in the full context of the song or the other chords that surround it.

Originally Posted by: dvenetian ... to realize when focusing on a Major Barre Chord, is that the M3rd is actually a 10th from the Root and a 3rd from the Octave. So it's still a 3rd.[/quote]
Yep. Chord tones in different octaves are still just chord tones ... in different octaves.
[QUOTE=dvenetian]
If I play an "A" Major Barre Chord, C# is the M3rd, correct???
What happens if I play an "A7" chord?? Isn't C# still the 3rd even though the Octave is replaced by a b7th note??????????

In a dominant chord (or major 7th, minor7th) the seventh does not replace the octave (or ny other chord tone). It is added to the chord tones already present.

So any arrangement of various A's, C#'s and E's is an A major chord. It might be a different inversion or voicing, but it is still "just" an A major chord. Makes no difference if there is one A or 20 of them. Adding a G makes it an A7. Make sense?

Thanks C. That helped a lot.............
I guess that the confusing part for me came from Equator's first post stating that it couldn't be a sus2 chord because the note was too far from the root note, so it can only be a 9th.

But the sus2 is enabled when no 3rd is present in the chord, regardless of where it is positioned because it is a M2 note.
Would this be a correct statement?

Originally Posted by: dvenetianThanks C. That helped a lot.............[/quote]
Welcome, of course. :)

Originally Posted by: dvenetian
I guess that the confusing part for me came from Equator's first post stating that it couldn't be a sus2 chord because the note was too far from the root note, so it can only be a 9th.

The reason that a chord tone is the suspended 2nd (or 4th) is that it replaces the major or minor 3rd. So, you are correct here:
[QUOTE=dvenetian]But the sus2 is enabled when no 3rd is present in the chord, regardless of where it is positioned because it is a M2 note.
Would this be a correct statement?

Yep. The 9th is indeed the 2nd an octave higher. The relative position of a chord tone from the root note is very important, but is not the only factor in naming a chord.

For example, if I played this:

E|-----------------|
B|---3---5---------|
G|-----------------|
D|---5---5---------|
A|---3---3---------|
E|-----------------|

I would call it a Csus2 and a C major. I would not call it the 9th and the 10th, even though they are technically that interval distance from the root.

E|-----------------|
B|---6---5---------|
G|-----------------|
D|---5---5---------|
A|---3---3---------|
E|-----------------|

Same thing here, except Csus4 and C major. However, this:

E|-----------------|
B|---3---1---------|
G|-----------------|
D|---2---2---------|
A|---3---3---------|
E|-----------------|

This is better called a Cadd9 because the 3rd is present and the 2nd is an octave higher.

Hope this helps.

Thanks C,
I can see clearly now...............................

We are going to get a little technical here. But I will try to answer your question.
Many guitarists (including me) play chords by using “shapes” or moveable chords they’ve memorized, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I like to analyze harmonies or melodies for that matter, from a pianist point of view.
So the following explanation is a piano oriented subject, that answers your question and can be applied to guitar.

Pianists sometimes play ROOTED VOICINGS, also known as Bud Powell voicings. These type of chords place the root deep-seated on the bass to provide a solid and open sound.
Rooted chords can be voiced as: 1-5, 1-3-7, 1-7 and 1-3.

Bellow we have two barre chords: A and A7.
Notice how the notes in red form an A power chord, simulating a rooted voicing type 1-5.


e--------5-----------------5--------------------------------
B--------5-----------------5-----------------------------------
G--------6-----------------6------------------------------------
D--------7-----------------5-----------------------------------
A--------7-----------------7----------------------------------
E--------5-----------------5--------------------------------------

Now let’s focus on the rest of the notes.
In the case of the first chord, the notes in black correspond to an A major chord; where the tonic has been doubled 1-3-5-8.

The second chord is a Four-note chord.
Piano players (especially in jazz) increase the spacing by positioning one or more notes one octave bellow. This technique is known as DROPPED VOICINGS.
So let’s take the A7 chord: (A-C#-E-G)
And let’s put it in first inversion: (C#-E-G-A)
Now lets drop the G note one octave bellow: (G-C#-E-A)

As you can see the second chord corresponds to a Dominant chord in first inversion; where the flatted seventh has been dropped one octave bellow.

Now I know that some readers are going to say…”Come on, it is just another voicing of the Dominant Chord’’ … and I agree because that is just what it is. But now you know the theory behind it and why the chord is voiced in that particular way.


Equator.


.

Interesting Equ.............
If I understand correctly from your post, it points out that chord inversions and chord voicings have different properties.
In other words; an (A-E-G-C#) cannot qualify as a Chord Inversion because it skips notes and only the sequence of notes can be altered for an inversion.
But (A-E-G-C#) can qualify as a Chord Voicing because it allows for notes to be skipped or repeated and still remains a voicing of A7.
Would this be a correct statement?????????

This thread was a blast to read. Who sez theory ain't fun? Way too much thinking going on on this one fella's. Look-it, it would have helped to know the rest of the progression. Better yet, just telling us the key signature would have cut this thread in have (except for maybe "Equators" ramblings), but my guess is the proper root for this chord is the G# or Ab if you prefer, making the chord just a simple G# add4
The break down is as follows:
Root = G#
3rd = C
Perfect 4th = C#
Perfect 5th = D#

I am glad to see the great responses everyone here has made in this thread! I thank you all!!
I live a hectic life (4 different jobs and an active social life) including gigs (4 this week coming) but hope to find enough time to become an active and respected member here at guitartricks.com

The song is Louisiana Sunday afternoon by Diane shure, the chord in question is the first chord of a two chord section the next chord is Am7/11. each chord gets 2 measures and it repeats twice equaling 8 measures.

then it goes to a Gmin, Cmaj, Fmaj7, E with a sharp 9, Am7/11, D7
I am comfortable soloing over this section. it is the chord we have been talking about and the Am7/11 I am uncomfortable with.
I must point out the bass player is playing a Db over the chord in question, and an A over the Am7/11 I have been using an A#min pent over the chord in question and an Am pent over the Am7/11 it works but I want more to work with.
The solo is actualy played on the original recording by a sax, and the chords were found using my ear listening to the piano on the original recording.
I'm still looking for more alternatives to play over this first section because I still feel limited. scales, arps or modes to play while soloing? I notice the sax uses mostly notes in the chords, and when we have a piano player he will usually do the same thing. I am trying to avoid this aproach because I feel there are better options I'm not finding yet, we have recorded the song on our most recent CD and we hired a sax player to cover that solo, but live it is usualyly up to me. The end of the song is a vamp over the chorus Fmaj7,
E with a sharp 9, Am7/11 it does this 3 times and resolves to a D7 and there is a nifty chord change the keyboardist does, I'm not exactly sure what it is cause I was soloing over the ending vamp in the studio and we don't use this change live cause we are 3 piece + vocal live, and I haven't analized the change.
I have ripped the tune from our new CD and would be happy to send an MP3 of it to anyone that wants to hear the actual song we have been talking about here. I play a solo over the end vamp that I feel is some of my best work in the studio to date. If I had to compare my sound and style in the soloing I do over the ending vamp I would say it sounds reminisant of Steve Lukather of Toto.

catch me here at guitartricks.com or
My email address is [email]steve.lasner@hotmail.com[/email] or I can be reached at www.myspace.com/steveredlasner
or telecasterred at youtube

Again thanks for all the great info you guys have posted here! It helps!

Originally Posted by: slasner... the chord in question is the first chord of a two chord section the next chord is Am7/11. each chord gets 2 measures and it repeats twice equaling 8 measures.[/quote]
Ah! So then you have:

Ab/Db: Db - Ab - C - Eb
Am7/11: A - C - E - G - D

Write them all out and look for a scale, key or harmonic relationship:

A - C - Db - D - Eb - E - G - Ab
1 - min3 - MAJ3 - 4 - b5 - 5 - min7 - MAJ7

Too many chromatic half-steps to all be in one key or scale. So you are going to have to view some of them as passing tones. But you can use all those notes and emphasize the chord tones for the chord that is happening at the time.

So on the Ab/Db bars play the scale and finish lines on that chord's notes, or play them on the rhythmically strong beats (typically the 1 and 3 or all downbeats). And use the non-chord notes as passing tones in between the chord tones (weak beats or upbeats). Or only play the notes of that chord (chord tone approach). When the chord changes, change your approach.

Interestingly, those notes do make a kind of "bluesy" minor pentatonic scale with lots of passing tones:

E|-------------------------------------4-5-8-9--|
B|--------------------------------5-8-----------|
G|-----------------------5-6-7-8----------------|
D|----------------5-6-7-------------------------|
A|-------4-5-6-7--------------------------------|
E|-(4)-5----------------------------------------|

[QUOTE=slasner]
I have been using an A#min pent over the chord in question and an Am pent over the Am7/11 it works but I want more to work with.

I hope my suggestions give you something to start with then.

If you have enough time (relatively slow tempo) you could approach each chord. This assumes you are comfortable with and desire a "jazzy" sound. So play a ii-V7 of each chord. With those chords it's gonna sound pretty "out there", but if you try it you might find a couple of licks that work for you.

Example: while the Ab/Db chord is happening play Ab major for the 1st bar, but when the 2nd bar starts, begin to look at approaching the Am7/11 chord. The ii of Amin is Bmin7b5 and the V7 is E7. So play either arpeggios or lines that outline or suggest those chords. Then when the Am7/11 arrives you have "prepared" for it's arrival using a harmonic progression.

Start playing Amin over the Am7/11 for the 1st bar, then when the 2nd bar starts, begin to look at approaching the Ab/Db chord. The ii of Ab is Bbmin and the V7 is Eb7. So play either arpeggios or lines that outline or suggest those chords. Then when the Ab/Db arrives you have "prepared" for it's arrival using a harmonic progression.

Make sense?

Again it's gonna sound pretty weird (depending upon your personal tastes). But with some woodshedding you might just find a lick or two that perfectly suit your desires. Then, interweave them with the pentatonics you've been using, mix that with some of the ideas I mentioned earlier and finally make sure to throw in a few chord tone, arpeggio licks (to strongly outline those very disparate chords).

Happy playing.

Yes the tempo is moderately slow. And yes your suggestions have helped me get more comfortable soloing over this section especially the way you explained setting up for the next chord, I wasn't thinking that way and it has made a big difference.
Many Thanks to all!

And by the way! I posted this same thread in 6 different guitar forums and I without a doubt recieved the best input by far here at GuitarTricks.com!!
I'll be back!