Modes

Can someone post all the major and minor modes because my original guitar teacher gave me three notes per string modes and then i see a copy of joe satriani's modes and there completley different. so i would like to know which is the original state of mode. cheers.

Come learn ABOUT modes before you learn a bunch of patterns.

http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/MusicTheory/Diatonic/DiatonicTOC.htm

With you there gennation.

Lao - you'll find the box shaped modal patterns the best to learn. 3 note per string shapes are good for shred but the classical boxes make it easier to see the differences between modes as compared to the major/minor scales you probably know backwards. For example, Lydian's sharpened fourth - you can see when you're playig the scale how it differs from the major.

I found modal theory very useful... and once you know about it you can make your own shapes. Mr Satriani likes doing that....

Originally Posted by: zreynoldspWith you there gennation.

Lao - you'll find the box shaped modal patterns the best to learn. 3 note per string shapes are good for shred but the classical boxes make it easier to see the differences between modes as compared to the major/minor scales you probably know backwards. For example, Lydian's sharpened fourth - you can see when you're playig the scale how it differs from the major.

I found modal theory very useful... and once you know about it you can make your own shapes. Mr Satriani likes doing that....

And, I'm with you.

I also have a couple of tutorials about breaking those "boxes" down into "your own shapes" ala Satriani.

Here's one on the Lydian scale (audio is included): http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/Lydian/LydianTOC.htm

And, here's one I call the Dominant Pantatonic...takeing many Dominant type scales and stipping them into one "common note scale" to fit all the application: http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/DomPent/DominantPentatonic.htm

The Lydian one is deadon Vai, Satch, Johnson. The Dominant Pentatonic is Mclaughlin, Jan Hammer, and Jeff Beck to the tee.

Originally Posted by: zreynoldspWith you there gennation.

Lao - you'll find the box shaped modal patterns the best to learn. 3 note per string shapes are good for shred but the classical boxes make it easier to see the differences between modes as compared to the major/minor scales you probably know backwards. For example, Lydian's sharpened fourth - you can see when you're playig the scale how it differs from the major.

I found modal theory very useful... and once you know about it you can make your own shapes. Mr Satriani likes doing that....

What are the classical boxes? the only two modes i dont know to well in my vocabulary are aeolion and locrian the rest im nailed with. yer my teacher did teach me to shred mainly with it in thirds and playing in threes and then fours. then playing it in modal 3rds. which i need to practice btw,

If you know one mode and it's fingers up and down the neck, then you know every mode, the root note just changes each time.

But, if you know the "locrian mode" you are refering to a PATTERN on the fretboard. That's a hard habit to break...because a pattern does not constitute a mode, or a name. The chord you are playing the notes over tells you the root, which in turn gives you the name.

I'm going to post a series of images showing you all the boxes of the Diatonic Major scales. There will be 7 INDENTICAL patterns...but with different names. This will show the one PATTERN is EVERY MODE.

The final image will also contain a COMMON drawing guitarists get from their teacher. These drawing will attach a NAME to a PATTERN...this is where most of the confusion about modes for guitarist starts, and it avalanches fast from there.

So, try and realize that one PATTERN is ALL of the modes, not a individual one, and ANY note in the pattern could be a Root depending on what chord it's played over.

See how the patterns are exactly the same but the Root note and the Name have changed?

But see the contrasting thought on the last page when a name is tied to ONE pattern.

While it's easy to learn the patterns and call them a name...sometimes it takes people years or decades even to realize the name has nothing to do with the pattern...it's the Root note that will give it it's name. And regardless of the pattern...it's the Intervals from the Root that corespond to the name.

The most important thing you can learn about modes is, learn the chords they belong to.

So, look down the right side of each modes chart and learn what chords are built from what modes.

For instance, ANY time you see a Dominant 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th chord...playing a Mixolydian from that chords Root is a dead ringer.

If you see a maj7 chord, from the chords Root - Ionian, or Lydian are your choices, sometimes they are even interchangable and can be used together...because they imply that same maj7 chord.

If you see a m7 chord...try Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian...a m7 chord can be built from each of them.

BUT...you have to also understand Keys, and how the chords are built from a Tonic in the Diatonic system...

Now go read that mode doc (http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/MusicTheory/Diatonic/DiatonicTOC.htm) and read it to learn what sound, what chord, a mode implies.

K, I found an error on my drawing for the Aeolian Scale.

The Em13 should be Emb13.

The Emadd13 should be Emaddb13.

The Emadd6/9 should be Emaddb6/9 (or even Emadd9/b13).

I'll try and fix these in Paint of something.

Also, if you don't understand the chords PLEASE visit my Chord Construction lessons at http://lessons.mikedodge.com.

Originally Posted by: gennationSee how the patterns are exactly the same but the Root note and the Name have changed?

But see the contrasting thought on the last page when a name is tied to ONE pattern.

While it's easy to learn the patterns and call them a name...sometimes it takes people years or decades even to realize the name has nothing to do with the pattern...it's the Root note that will give it it's name. And regardless of the pattern...it's the Intervals from the Root that corespond to the name.

The most important thing you can learn about modes is, learn the chords they belong to.

So, look down the right side of each modes chart and learn what chords are built from what modes.

For instance, ANY time you see a Dominant 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th chord...playing a Mixolydian from that chords Root is a dead ringer.

If you see a maj7 chord, from the chords Root - Ionian, or Lydian are your choices, sometimes they are even interchangable and can be used together...because they imply that same maj7 chord.

If you see a m7 chord...try Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian...a m7 chord can be built from each of them.

BUT...you have to also understand Keys, and how the chords are built from a Tonic in the Diatonic system...

Now go read that mode doc (http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/MusicTheory/Diatonic/DiatonicTOC.htm) and read it to learn what sound, what chord, a mode implies.

So your saying that if i was to write a new song.
i would say lets right it in the key of c and the style of the song would be in the pattern of lydian. would i be correct in saying that? also someone said maybe you, that once ive learnt the first pattern lets say ionion( u know what i mean). if i played that pattern for that song does that mean i stick to that pattern or can i change pattern? and when im in that key of c and i play the lydian scale do i just use the same pattern and change it to the right root note everytime a chord is mooved from one to the next?.
im just trying to work it out in my head.

Originally Posted by: Lao_TzuSo your saying that if i was to write a new song.
i would say lets right it in the key of c and the style of the song would be in the pattern of lydian. would i be correct in saying that? also someone said maybe you, that once ive learnt the first pattern lets say ionion( u know what i mean). if i played that pattern for that song does that mean i stick to that pattern or can i change pattern? and when im in that key of c and i play the lydian scale do i just use the same pattern and change it to the right root note everytime a chord is mooved from one to the next?.
im just trying to work it out in my head.

If you are in the Key of C, you can play any C D E F G A or B note anywhere on the fretboard. Those will always be in the Key of C. If you've learn what guitar players learn as "mode patterns" then yes, you can play any of those patterns from the Key of C and still be in the Key of C.

If you know your mode patterns, take an evening and write down the names of the notes in each of those patterns and you see they all contain the same notes. For instanse, in the Key of C Major...

C Ionian = CDEFGABC
D Dorian = DEFGABCD
E Phrygian = EFGABCDE
F Lydian = FGABCDEF
G Mixolydian = GABCDEFG
A Aeolian = ABCDEFGA
B Locrian = BCDEFGAB
C Ioinian = CDEFGABC

So, if you've learned those patterns with a name attached to them...you can see that the name is ONLY there because of the name of the low note in pattern and "thinking" that's the Root.

But, in reality....any one of those notes could be a Root, and in turn, that throws the whole Name to Pattern idea off the table.

One of those scales could be ANY one of those scale. Because they ALL contain the exact same notes.

Now, as I explained in my document, you could be playing:

||: C | Am | F | G :||

Since this whole progession is in the Key of C Major....Musicians will do a couple of basic experiments with playing over this...but, they both achieve the same thing...

The simple way...ONLY play the notes that are in the Key of C, and use your ear to move through it landing on notes that are melodic to the chord progression.

The other way is, move melodically by consciously move to each Root scale for each chord, IOW moving to each Mode or scale that build the individual chord...Like:

C - play C Ionian
Am - play A Aeolian
F - play F Lydian
G - play G Mixolydian

This is a little more difficult and sometimes you're thinking more than just playing. But, it's good brain food so to speak. And, it'll help you understanding of things.

BUT, in reality both ways are the SAME thing...both use the same notes, and both try to follow the progression through some sort of movement...even though there's no movement deu to the same group of notes being playable over each chord.

ALWAYS though, the ear is right. Whether you plow over the chords playing to the chords, or you methodically move from scale to scale over the chords...it's what sounds good that is most important.

So, while one way might be easier than the other when playing...neither way is wrong, and neither way is right.

Hope that makes sense.

i totally get the last bit its what sounds good to you and feels gd over those chords that makes the song work. so just a recap all the modes are the same but when i play the mode inion the shape differs from aelion and they sound different but yet u say they use the same notes? how can this be. because there is minor and major modes. dont they have different notes to each other? from the minor and major. is the difference just purely from starting at a different root note?.

Originally Posted by: Lao_Tzui totally get the last bit its what sounds good to you and feels gd over those chords that makes the song work. so just a recap all the modes are the same but when i play the mode inion the shape differs from aelion and they sound different but yet u say they use the same notes? how can this be. because there is minor and major modes. dont they have different notes to each other? from the minor and major. is the difference just purely from starting at a different root note?.

Yes... The scales contain the same notes - D Dorian is just a C ionian scale using the second note (D) as the root.

The change in intervals results in the different sounds...

C Ionian and A Aeolian share the same notes - Am is Cmaj's relative minor.

Whether you can use the Modes in your music will depend on the chords over which you are playing.
You are not gonna be able to exploit the “flavors” of the Modes if you keep thinking of them as …the Major Scale starting on another note.

You could think of the Dorian Mode as the minor scale with the 6th note sharpened.


D minor scale=[D-E-F-G-A- Bb-C]
D dorian……. =[D-E-F-G-A- B- C]

Play the D dorian over a Dm chord or better yet play it over a Dm6 chord(no distortion, please :) )


e------------1-------------
B------------0-------------
G------------2-------------
D------------0-------------
A--------------------------
E--------------------------

The open B string, captures the dorian sound.


.

Originally Posted by: Lao_TzuCan someone post all the major and minor modes because my original guitar teacher gave me three notes per string modes and then i see a copy of joe satriani's modes and there completley different. so i would like to know which is the original state of mode. cheers.

See if this scale/mode falls in with some of Satriani`s work.

I think you will be surprised.

Just one raised, or lowered note in a diatonic scale, or mode can make the whole thing look different, and sound different.