Retrofitting a hardtail for a Kahler or Bigsby


Vegas Wierdo
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Vegas Wierdo
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07/27/2006 4:05 am
I hate Floyd Rose! My first guitar came with one and I wish, oh I wish....

But I have to do the dive bombs. I gotta have my dive bombs!!!

The Bigsby isn't as "Xtreme" as the Kahler, but I like those way more than FR. Especially on a big ol' Gretsch archtop.

I've never gotten the chance to try out a Kahler, and I fear I might have to venture into Ed Roman Guitars :eek: here in Las Vegas and pick up some neon pink 80s hair metal axe while staving off the con artist*COUGH*salesman, but from all that I've seen (the description) and heard (Slayer!!!) it is my dream come true.

So with all that said...

...is it possible to have a luthier retrofit a hardtail guitar, such as a Les Paul or a Schecter or a Flying V or a Telecaster or a fill-in-the-blank, with either a Bigsby or a Kahler?

Or would I be better off just $pringing for a made-to-order cu$tom job? :confused:
# 1
Vegas Wierdo
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Vegas Wierdo
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07/27/2006 5:50 am
Allow me to piggyback a related question here.

I have a guitar with a Floyd Rose and I hate it. My preferred string gauge is 13-56. A FR generally has three springs. To tune above C#, which is not but one whole step above a baritone , requires not three but five of the beefiest springs that can be installed for a FR. But that's not why I hate it. Oh no... see below.

Would the Kahler have the same problem? Would they have to torque it up to handle my 13-56 strings? Or would it scoff at my 13s like I'm hoping it would? I know Kahler makes trems for bass guitars , so they must be pretty dang heavy duty in general.

Also, aside from how the FR smothers my tone like a schizophrenic taking out his sleeping girlfriend with a pillow after the voices tell him she's the anti-christ's cousin, I hate how much of a pain-in-the-@$$ it is to set up and string!

How are Kahlers in that regard, in terms of the P.I.T.A. factor? I'm just wondering, because even if it was worse I would still want one, from all that I've seen and heard.

Basically, the guys from Slayer absolutely adore Kahlers, and they utterly despise the Floyd Rose more than they do religion. I know I sure as hell hate the FR with as much passion as they do, so I'm estimating that there's a 98% probability that I will love the Kahler as much as they do.

Ohhhhh... I want one so badly it keeps me up at night!!! :(

Well, lots of things keep me up at night... but you get the picture.
# 2
ren
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ren
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07/27/2006 10:52 am
It is pretty much possible for a luthier to do anything you could ask for to a guitar. Bigsby's are pretty common on les pauls / SGs etc, and I've seen them on tele's as well, so that'll be easy - so easy you coud probably do it yourself. Can you really dive-bomb a bigsby though? dunno, I've never used one...

The kahler mod would be easy enough for a pro, and as you say kahler make bass trems so it'll cope but as it still uses springs to offset the tension, I can't see it being much better than a floyd (I have no experience of kahler trems - just applying some thought to it)

I love floyds - you just need to get used to them. I've got graphite saddles which maybe help tone - although I've never had a problem with tone on floyd equipped guitars. On the pain in the ass string changing, without wanting to sound patronising, it's an experience thing. It's also made easier by using a wedge of some type to hold the bridge up while you remove the strings - saves you the constant messing about bringing all the strings to pitch. I've used floyd rose bridges for years, and could at a guess totally restring and tune up one of my JEMs in a few minutes - definitely less than five....

If you only need the dive-bomb, have you thought about using a hardtail and a whammy pedal? You'd get the tone you want, plus tuning stability and no worries with string gauges (beyond making sure they fit the nut/saddles). Removing the amount of wood required to mount a kahler is bound to have an effect on tone...

Oh, and if you see a pink 80's 'hair metal' guitar, buy it man. Everyone should have a pink guitar :D

Check out my music, video, lessons & backing tracks here![br]https://www.renhimself.com

# 3
aschleman
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aschleman
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07/27/2006 1:06 pm
If you're tuning to C#... I would suggest leaving your guitar as a hardtail. You're just asking for set-up problems if you're talking about tuning that low... AND adding a tremolo. A wammy pedal would work nice.

However, to satisfy your curiousity. As was said earlier. Les Pauls and SG's come with Bigsby's all the time... Some models it's a standard feature. See the Black Beauty for example... That's probably the only LP I would ever buy... Aside from a Slash signature model. Bigsby makes kits that can be installed on arch top or flat top models... check www.stew-mac.com You should be able to find them pretty easy on there.

I don't have much experience with tremolos... specifically the Khalers. I have some experience with FR's and bigsby's but I don't use a lot of trem in my playing... And the only electrics I own are strats fitted with the Vintage style trem... very basic. Your heavy string gauges don't fit well with tremolos... but any decent luthier or tech should be able to make it work if that's what you want. If it's something you want to pursue... check stew-mac out and go consult a tech/luthier... they should be able to answer your questions. Take your guitar in so they can specifically look at it and gie you a straight up answer.
# 4
Vegas Wierdo
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Vegas Wierdo
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07/27/2006 7:54 pm
A whammy pedal! :eek:

How is that different from a wah? I've never tried a wah but I've been meaning to check it out.

Would a whammy pedal do everything a Kahler can do? Because if so... then that's what I'll get!!! :D Even if not quite... I just might anyways.

As for Kahlers... from what I understand, their advantages over the Floyd are twofold: you don't have to gouge out a big rear cavity for the fulcrum (it's flat mounted up top, the entire unit is visible on the surface), and the metal and design is of far better quality.

Also, nobody is more experienced than Slayer when it comes to ripping out the speed metal... they still out-shred every Viking symphonic black hole orchestra I've ever heard... so I take their assessments gravely seriously.

Also, I tune the Strat down to C#, because one half step above that and the bridge will bow like a palm tree in a hurricane! I actually prefer D, which is only one whole step below E.

Iommi usually dropped it to C# (originally because of his finger stubs) but he had an SG.
# 5
Tele Master
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Tele Master
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07/27/2006 8:41 pm
You won't get any dive bombs done with a Bigsby. Bigsby's are for much more suttle tremolo effects.
Electric Guitars are the inspiration for cries of "Turn that damn thing down"-Gibson website
# 6
Vegas Wierdo
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Vegas Wierdo
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07/27/2006 9:25 pm
I've tried Bigsby several times and I like it. I would really love to have a Gretsch archtop with a Bigsby. I've pushed the Bigsby to its limit and also figured out all the subtleties it can do... and it's a lot more fun to play with than the stupid Floyd Rose. Also, maybe no divebombs but they do go both down and up... whereas the Strat-style fulcrum trem only goes up.
# 7
ren
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ren
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07/28/2006 8:44 am
check out the digitech whammy here

Mine is an indispensible part of my rig, and you can do all kinds of cool stuff. It has loads of settings and you have to play around with them a bit, but you can get way more extreme results from the pedal than you would from the trem. The new model has a 'dive-bomb' preset, but you can also raise pitch way further than you could with any kind of trem and can also harmonise at different intervals.

Other than being a pedal, the Whammy isn't much like a wah at all...

Check out my music, video, lessons & backing tracks here![br]https://www.renhimself.com

# 8

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