Originally Posted by: axemaster911I know this. Its the pattern of intervals that I am referring to. And diatonic is the expression I am useing because all the diatonic scale variations follow this same pattern, just with diffrent starting points. What is the word you would use then( if accidental is not it) when scales vary from this pattern?
Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsWhat ever you've been reading, it's just flat out wrong. That is simply not true, and that's what I've been trying to stress all this time.
Accidental = # (sharp) or b(flat)
That's absolutely it. Nothing more, nothing less. Anyone that tells you otherwise is not telling you the truth. My source will be this. http://www.musictheory.net/lessons/html/id20_en.html
Read what this lesson tells you. That is what an accidental is. Accidentals have no effect what-so-ever on what determines a diatonic scale. They're a completely different thing. Of all of the books I've read on music theory, I've never read anything that has disagreed with this.
Again, there is no diatonic scale pattern. Diatonic isn't a scale. It's just a word with a definition.http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=diatonic There are no compositions in D Diatonic because there is no diatonic scale pattern.
The scale you're thinking of is C Major. The Major scale is the scale that is used for the blueprint of everything and C Major has no accidentals and because C Major has 2 half steps and 5 whole steps in its interval structure, it is also a type of diatonic scale, but it is not the diatonic scale because there is no interval structure called diatonic. That is it.
Originally Posted by: axemaster911Diatonic scale= Seven note musical scale comprising five whole tone , and two half tone steps, in which the half tones are maximally seperated.
Accidentals= Notes that do not lie in the scale of the Key.
Now I am sure there are a million diffrent ways of thinking of this, but man, are you trying to help me with my question, or show me not worthy to even ask?
Originally Posted by: Julian VickersI'm starting to fear getting into music theory arguments, but I have something to say: You are both right.
First of all, in written music, the little signs by the notes to denote sharps or flats or natural notes are called accidentals, so cryptic is definately right on that one.
But also, (especially in jazz, where disharmonic notes are played frequently) notes played that are not in the key are also frequently called "accidental" notes. It could be that it's slang, but in class, when analysing jazz solos, my lecturer often calls notes outside of the scale accidentals.
There is seriously no point in getting into an argument over this though.
Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonYour definition of Accidentals is not correct. Cryptic has given you the correct definition numerous times. It is simply a sharp or flat.
Originally Posted by: Julian VickersSo basically, as far as I can tell, the only times you have to put in an accidental sign, is when you have a note that isn't in the key signature. Of course, if you have a piece of music that does not have a key signature, it is different.
Originally Posted by: axemaster911If this is the case, what is the term for notes outside the scale in a key?
And why do sharps, and flats get a name like accidentals. What does it imply about sharps, and flats that dont aply to naturals, being the only diffrences are a slightly higher, or lower pitch?
Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonAh, but how does one notate the key signature?
Accidentals
Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonChromatic.
It's just what they're named. Why do we call a building "building?"
Originally Posted by: equatorThe Diatonic Scale evolved from two Tetrachords [C-D-E-F] and [G-A-B-C].
From those two Tetrachords you get the seven notes which correspond to the white keys on the piano; consisting of five tones and two semitones with no accidentals.
The Major and Minor Scales or the Church Modes with no sharps or flats are Diatonic.
Accidentals are notes that are outside the key in which a piece is written.
For example in the piece Fur Elise, the key signature is A minor, but the very second note is an accidental(D#) because it is out of the key signature.
Another example is the piece Fugue in G minor.
The key signature features Bb and Eb, but several times in the piece J.S. Bach places E natural as accidental because it is out of the key signature.
And it is not necessarily chromatic because the note before that is sometimes a fifth lower.
Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsIf a note is played outside of the key it is chromatic. It doesn't matter how many steps above or below something is. If it's out of key, it's chromatic. Furthermore, how can Fur Elise be in A Minor if the starting note is E? Anyway, that would still be chromatic.
An accidental is the symbol used to show when a note is sharp, flat, or natural. I've posted links to sources confirming everything that I've said on this so far.
Originally Posted by: equatorThe Diatonic Scale evolved from two Tetrachords [C-D-E-F] and [G-A-B-C].
From those two Tetrachords you get the seven notes which correspond to the white keys on the piano; consisting of five tones and two semitones with no accidentals.
The Major and Minor Scales or the Church Modes with no sharps or flats are Diatonic.
Accidentals are notes that are outside the key in which a piece is written.
For example in the piece Fur Elise, the key signature is A minor, but the very second note is an accidental(D#) because it is out of the key signature.
Another example is the piece Fugue in G minor.
The key signature features Bb and Eb, but several times in the piece J.S. Bach places E natural as accidental because it is out of the key signature.
And it is not necessarily chromatic because the note before that is sometimes a fifth lower.
Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsIf a note is played outside of the key it is chromatic. It doesn't matter how many steps above or below something is. If it's out of key, it's chromatic. Furthermore, how can Fur Elise be in A Minor if the starting note is E? Anyway, that would still be chromatic.
An accidental is the symbol used to show when a note is sharp, flat, or natural. I've posted links to sources confirming everything that I've said on this so far.
Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsIf a note is played outside of the key it is chromatic. It doesn't matter how many steps above or below something is. If it's out of key, it's chromatic. Furthermore, how can Fur Elise be in A Minor if the starting note is E? Anyway, that would still be chromatic.
An accidental is the symbol used to show when a note is sharp, flat, or natural. I've posted links to sources confirming everything that I've said on this so far.
