Would it be better for music if we let guitar take a hiatus?

The 80s could be seen as the last hedonistic days of the rock guitar. The guitar had steadily built up reputation as being THE rock instrument, from the 60's (and earlier) onwards, and by the 80s, it seemed that guitarists realised this a little too much. What did the music matter, if we could listen to amazing self-indulgent solos? Well, it's no wonder that people have shied away from guitar in a lot of cases, a great example being Radiohead. Maybe rock music can only continue to live if the image of a rock band stops being tied to a guitar. There has been talk of the way bassists are becoming more noticeable, in a way that seems to be filling the void left by unoriginal guitarists. I love the guitar, it is a great instrument, but the continued desire for guitarists to be gods has certainly contributed to the rise of the boy band, etc, in which listeners - particularly younger listeners - can listen to music without being confronted by long winded soloing deigned to impress washed up 45 year olds trying to relive the glory days of their instrument. Is this too cynical? Something needs to change, most of the interesting modern music I listen to currently has little to do with guitar, or if they do, are more about creating a good sound than being guitarish; Fatboy Slim, Beck, Radiohead, some U2, Neil Finn, etc. As guitarists, perhaps we spend to long trying to pay homage to past masters, without relaising where they fit in. It would be scary to think that guitarists were truly expressing themselves through their instruments, it implies we are all the same, becasue guitar music is all starting to sound the same. Is there one, big, americanised, soul, that guitarists have, rather than something more personal? Where is the expression of our age? Where is the life?

The way I see it, if it makes notes it's an instrument. And I'm not too patucular about what instrumentation people use. I just happened to take a shining to Bass and Guitar and so here I am.

I also think that in a way the instrument is trying to reinvent itself- look past the strings and frets and see what else we can get the little booger to do. Bass has gone from mostly root note eight note basslines to... less boring basslines (you still don't see that many really good bassists yet). So regardless, we're evolving, and evolution is good.

Their will come a time when hardly anybody plays guitar any more, but I really don't think the instrument is important in people's minds. What is important is playing something that sounds good to people and communicates with them. Their is nothing higher than playing a few notes and making everbody in the audience feel what you're feeling. I'm a long way off but that's where I'de like to think I'm walking.

Originally posted by Bardsley
...washed up 45 year olds trying to relive the glory days of their instrument...

Ouch!! I resemble that remark!! :D lmao (I'm 48, but unless I'm covering Albert King's "Blues At Sunrise", I can usually get my point across in 12 bars, 24 tops).

It takes a certain amount of ego to want to get up on a stage in front of a bunch of people and subject yourself to possible critisism. Sadly, there are enough players with more ego than talent to give everyone a bad name.

Originally posted by Bardsley
...Is there one, big, americanised, soul, that guitarists have, rather than something more personal? Where is the expression of our age? Where is the life?

Well, yes, if you only listen to the radio! Take a break, get out to a club or two, and listen to some live music.

Here, in Calgary, the talent agents work a battle of the bands format in some of the smaller clubs. The house gets a sampling of local talent they might not have heard otherwise, and the bands get good exposure. There's some real creativity out there. Everybody has to know a few recognizable tunes for credibility, but its not all rehashed top-40.

'Americanized'? Get over yourself, dude. The world is home to some 6 billion people. About 5% of 'em are American.

The universe is a mix of ups and downs.
I see the lack of new, inovative guitar players at the moment as an industrial slump. And once more, the slump being caused by the recording industry, afraid to spend a buck on some unknown out of a club in some small town in Ohio, or Britsh Columbia.
It happened in the early 60s, most noticable.
Do wha, rama langa ding dong music really bottomed out. More than one recording exe said that the future of the guitar looks dim.
In late 1963 I'd been playing music for a bit over five years. Being fifteen and full of ideas, I was bored with the Four Seasons, Neil Sedaka, ect. I found myself turning to country, jazz, blues, looking for adventure I didn't find in Elvis.
Then one day someone showed up with a new sound.
The Beatles were like a guitar revival.
The slump was over as that Brit band spawned countless new ideas and groups. They weren't the only ones, just the most popular at the time. Others quickly took the light and their guitars gave inspirational sounds to us bored guitar players.
While rock was alive and well in England, Germany and Holland, it took a dive here in the states, and I acredit the slump to the recording exes. They called the shots that lead to the decline of the guitar. This was the motivating factor in the decline,,, $. There were plenty of very good players out playing around the country, but the exes were afraid to take a chance on them.

Someone will show up, maybe a few at around the same time. Someone will step up on stage and get the attention of the exes.
I still play clubs, do mostly blues now, do a lot of my own stuff as well as others. From the reaction in the clubs from the paying customers, the guitar is alive and well

One thing I see cropping up is the Label bands. They interview numerous singers and players and form a custom group with the sound the label people want, spending countless $ on training them and teaching them for what they or what they think the public is clamoring for.
So much takes place in the final editing too. Any dink off the streets can sound like Vai, Clapton, who ever when the mixing and editing is done.

Guitar music is in a slump. Just keep the faith.

A couple of additional notes:

1. Its intersting how most of us older fellas seem to gravitate to the Blues as the last bastion of deep emotional expression. It also happens to be a lot of fun, working out how to fit your originality into what seems at first glance to be a rather restrictive format.

2. People who don't remenber the early 60's from personal experience don't seem to realize just how pervasive The Biz is. The Beatles weren't doing anything very different from the material the Everley Brothers (among others) were recording, but because they were from far-away England, they could be presented as 'A Fresh, New, Sound'. Of course, the fact that they were all very talented, skilled, musicians helped a [u]lot[/u], but I wonder if The Biz execs bothered with little details like that?

3. The 'made for TV' bands that gather so much disdain, (and [u]so[/u] many dollars), are not a new phenomenon at all. 'Anybody remember The Monkees? The Partridge Family?
For that matter, most of the revered Motown bands were studio musicians backing up singers that were assembled for the occasion.

Damn! I feel old, sometimes. LOL :D

Originally posted by Raskolnikov:
What is important is playing something that sounds good to people and communicates with them.

Yes, thats one of the most important aspects of creating music, because it doesn't only benefit for others, but it gives you a heightened perspective of what direction you ewant to go. Its not so much that the opinions of others matter, but what matters is how they react, and how they make you feel (naturally in return.)


-Joseph


[Edited by Joseph on 07-09-2001 at 12:25 AM]

Well, the thing is that most musicians today think much differently than the way they thought years ago. It seems as if instant success is more important than longevity. The guitar, this instrument will always be around because of the endless possibilities, and there is always many undiscovered levels of creativity for many musicians all over the globe. But it seems as if most musicians are tired of exploring their many options with this instrument, because of he nagging sence that its all been done ten times over.

With Radiohead, they managed to release two records that strayed from guitar rock, and they got away with it, because this was merely an honest expression of their creativity, and how they felt they wanted to represent themselves. Something that is greatly appreciated for millions of fans, including myself. But this is something that worked for them, and its not something that will necessarily work for others. And thats the problem, its easy to imagine yourself doing something similiar (or very much alike) to what someone elses has already done, but it takes much more courage to search within yourself for answers, creating your own very personal statement. Everytime something new and exciting comes across to the public, the excitement doesn't last very long, because there are always millions of copy cats. So perhps for a lot of musicians they are trying to find new ways to express their undying creativity, new ways that others would never try in a millions years.

Either way, music goes in cycles, and our tastes change as if theres no tomorrow.

-Joseph

I'm just getting to Lordathestrings here, haven't read past his post yet...
That comment about the washed up 45 year olds was I knew when I wrote it, a bit unfair, but I was trying to convey an atmosphere. It applies to people of any age, and creativity stems from anywhere, but I think you might know what I meant by that statement. In fact, what is worse is the amount of people my age that refuse to listen to anyhting new, despite not even being around during the 70s etc.
I listen to a helluva lot of live music, where I agree, interesting stuff is happening, but why isn't it on the radio? I never really listen to radio, I get a better ratio of good tunes to crap with my CD player, and the good stuff filters down to me usually.
The comment of americanised (the z you put is in itself an americanisation, neither good nor bad, just funny that it crops up in the word) was I guess something I said because of the way it feels from here in oz. Australian rock does have its own style, distinctive to a degree from US stuff, but there is a lack of ethnic variances that is odd. Sure, rock music is probably American to start with, so its no surprise that it continues to dominate the rock scene, but stilll... somehting niggles.
I know I went a bit over the top, but frustration sets in.

I think it's fair to say that most people on this forum are a bit frustrated, such as those who've been playing for years and years, who actually whitnessed the 60's, those who are young, but still love that music, or those like me who simply have very weird tastes. People are at a point where they're saying "their isn't much to do that hasn't been done before" and they're half right- a lot of great ideas have allready been done. But they fail to think or remember that before all those groudbreaking bands came out, no matter when they came out, people were thinking that it all had been done before. I REFUSE to think that their's nothing new to do, that their's nothing unexpressed, that creativity has all been sucked up in the great music that came before.

That said, I'm having a lot of trouble actually doing anything new myself.

But hey, I keep trying. In the meantime I've converted most of my CD's into mp3's and have been burning mixed CD's to listen to at work. That atleast approximates a radio station that doesn't suck.

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
I REFUSE to think that their's nothing new to do, that their's nothing unexpressed, that creativity has all been sucked up in the great music that came before.

I think once someone admits that its all been done in the music industry, then basically they are admiting to the fact that their only form of inspiration is taken from the work of others. Music inspires us in many different ways, and we aren't always inspired by the sounds of others, sometimes its takes the most subtle conversation to get our creative juices flowing, to give us something new to work with.

-Joseph

If it seems like "everything's been done" try mixing styles to make something new. Look at Western Swing (in the 30's, somebody asks "what'll happen if we put together hillbilly fiddle music and horn-based swing jazz?" - only in Texas). Look at Ry Cooder in the 70's, using Flaco Jiminez and his San Antonio conjunto for instrumentation and 3 gospel/r&b/soul singers for vocals and his slide guitar pulling it all together to create what? - TexMex SoulBlues Rock?. In fact it might be possible to make a case for saying that the major changes in popular music in the 20th century were mostly if not all from juxtaposing different styles in a new way. And the guitar took over from the piano as the instrument in everybody's homes (starting in the mid-50's i think) because it was more mobile (& cheaper, but it had always been around in poor houses). Maybe the guitar became the dominant instrument just because it was so accessible, 'democratic' & portable.
But i start to ramble; i didn't read the whole thread, just jumped in when a comment about it all having been done hit my scanning eye.