bush has gone too far this time

Originally Posted by: stacknyTell that to those who were murdered on 9/11....wait you cant.

You would rather mock them by using their deaths as an excuse to violate the basic principles this country was founded on?

I just really ****ing sick of people complaining every freakin thing that goes wrong in their life is the presidents fault! Did he personally abuse prisoners at abu grav? No! Did he issue a command to only save white people at Katrina? No! And just to comment on the question of pulling out of iraq, Most nations dont trust the U.S. BECAUSE they pull out of a war instead of finishing it ! And then the terrorist come back and massacre the people!!! Ex. Vietnam, Persian gulf war 1...

I DVR that whole block from 7-9 (Simpsons - American Dad) So American Dad was what got axed for me. I'll have to catch it on reruns.

Originally Posted by: Blues_Man Most nations dont trust the U.S. BECAUSE they pull out of a war instead of finishing it ! And then the terrorist come back and massacre the people!!! Ex. Vietnam, Persian gulf war 1...

HUH???? :confused:

if you CAN pull out of a war that means ....1)you are the aggressor 2)you are not under threat 3) you should not be there in the first friggin' place

Originally Posted by: z0s0_jpif you CAN pull out of a war that means ....1)you are the aggressor 2)you are not under threat 3) you should not be there in the first friggin' place

I disagree. Ever hear of Hitler and nazi Germany?

Originally Posted by: Blues_ManI just really f-ing sick of people complaining every freakin thing that goes wrong in their life is the presidents fault!

Kind of like how Clinton takes the blow for 9/11 for not getting Bin Laden when he had the chance.

Originally Posted by: AkiraI agree. What amazes me is that suddenly it's "ok" that he did what he did, just because he took the blame. Are people really that blind?

Yes....sadly they are...

Originally Posted by: z0s0_jpHUH???? :confused:

In the first persian gulf war the U.S. asked a middle eastern political group to back them up in taking out another (bad, controlling) political group. They said yes, funded some of it and were ready to fight them and then the U.S. Pulled out. Then the other group found out and killed most of them. At the start of the 2nd the U.S. asked them for help, this time they said no because they didn't want a repeat of the last war.

Originally Posted by: HammurabiI disagree. Ever hear of Hitler and nazi Germany?

not even close to iraq and vietnam and korea....i think germany posed a bit more of a threat to world peace and pulling out was not even an option once we got in.

Originally Posted by: Blues_ManIn the first persian gulf war the U.S. asked a middle eastern political group to back them up in taking out another (bad, controlling) political group. They said yes, funded some of it and were ready to fight them and then the U.S. Pulled out. Then the other group found out and killed most of them. At the start of the 2nd the U.S. asked them for help, this time they said no because they didn't want a repeat of the last war.

are you talking about the kurds???

Originally Posted by: z0s0_jpare you talking about the kurds???

It's been sooo long since history class :D I'm not sure, maybe.

Originally Posted by: stacknyTell that to those who were murdered on 9/11....wait you cant.

tell that to the president who thought nothing of a handful of muslims on an FBI intellegence report saying that they wanted to learn how to fly planes but not land them.

and also tell that to the president that has completely abused their deaths to chip away at our liberties and go to war with a country that we have no immediate reason to be at war with. that and our presence there only makes the terrorist we're hating seem right to the arab people and therefore defeat our terrorist efforts and we learn absolutely nothing from their deaths.

but anyways, i think think that you need to realize that a war in iraq was the worst thing ever for us in the war against terrorism and only hurt us in the long run and inspire more terrorists to be more vigilant about fighting us and attacking us.


so not only are we moving more towards fascism, we're moving more towards attacks and more panic and more fascism.

fascism doesn't purely come by the government's hand....it comes from a mandate from the people. never allow yourself to be foolish enough to ask for something like that.

Originally Posted by: Blues_ManI just really f-ing sick of people complaining every freakin thing that goes wrong in their life is the presidents fault! Did he personally abuse prisoners at abu grav? No! Did he issue a command to only save white people at Katrina? No! And just to comment on the question of pulling out of iraq, Most nations dont trust the U.S. BECAUSE they pull out of a war instead of finishing it ! And then the terrorist come back and massacre the people!!! Ex. Vietnam, Persian gulf war 1...

and it's talk like that that allows torture and such to continue...you don't hold the president accountable for his staff. it's a case of you accepting that the left hand has no clue what the right is doing. he's the president, if he's not in control of his staff, we're in a lot bigger trouble than i'm even making it out to be.


pulling out of iraq would show that we're rethinking our policies in the middle east rather than just looking to control the entire middle east and support oppressive regiemes like the sauds. the terrorists see this as a defensive jihand to defend their land from foriegn invaders....which we are!

it also doesn't help that we're claiming to be the moral beacon but we have torture jails and kidnap people without any legal justifications other than a hunch someone has with no submitted proof or request for a warrent.

if you're right and the president isn't to blame, he's still to blame for keeping an incompetant staff.

Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsKind of like how Clinton takes the blow for 9/11 for not getting Bin Laden when he had the chance.

As he should. Clinton destroyed our homeland security plans, passed up the chance to have Bin Laden when the guy was already a known terrorist, and people try to dump this off on bush who had been in office for about 8 months.

I remember that film "Forrest Gump", whose all forebears had died in war, and he, in Vietnam, wanted to die too, to continue the tradition of his family.

Unfortunately that's is a big true. Americans are more militaryst than ever. They wanna die in war, doesn't mattter what war. Even better if the President lies to them about the cause, saying the country is in danger. They pride in handling guns and showing how to use it.

In that sense, they're very much like the fanatic muslims. If muslims die in combat, they become martyrs and go to Heaven. Americans, if they die in combat they become heroes, and also go to Heaven.

They don't wanna learn the lessons the Europeans learned the hard and sad way.

I'm ready to die for my country. But don't lie to me about its reasons. I don't wanna die in vain, just for having someone come later say I was a hero. Take a look at what happened to Pat Tillman, a patriot, no doubt, but after his tragic and useless death, the own Army lies about its causes. I think he would serve his country much better if he were alive on the fields making a lot more people happy.

In that sense, and in several others, I prefer Jimmy Hendrix. Had he died in Vietnam, we'd have lost one of the best guitar players of all time.

what i dont get with the american government, is that if you hate bush so much, why did u vote him president again at such a hards time for ur country

Originally Posted by: AkiraWell obviously not everyone voted for him. :rolleyes:

yea but i heard he won by a landslide, soz if i got it rong, im aussie ,very lazy :cool:

Originally Posted by: young/youngyea but i heard he won by a landslide, soz if i got it rong, im aussie ,very lazy :cool:

Hold up man. Definately NOT a landslide. He actually lost the popular vote in 2000, and won 51% to 49% in 2004. 2 of the closest elections in American History. The only landslide here is the one this country has taken since his illegitimate regime started 5 years ago.

Originally Posted by: LeedoggHold up man. Definately NOT a landslide. He actually lost the popular vote in 2000, and won 51% to 49% in 2004. 2 of the closest elections in American History. The only landslide here is the one this country has taken since his illegitimate regime started 5 years ago.

ok, ok, i just heard it from my mate, cuz as i sed, im typical aussie as shown in the simpsons, im lazy and thank u for tellin me, but what i dont get is why parliamentary members get to make the military decisions, they dont kno anything about it usualy