here is a good one

Why does for example Min pentonic and other min scales work over a maj chord, and a maj scale doesn't work over a min chord.

Because you're not using the right major scale. Play an A minor chord and improvise with C major arrpegios and a C major scale. You can do the same thing with F and G major (kind-of)
........

this is the reason 3ab(3ab Squred*1 thorugh 7) 8 the squre ort of the hypotenuse = the dam third

That doesn't answer my question because C maj scale has the same notes as A min. And you can't do the same thing with F min and G maj. It would be E min and G maj because they have the same notes in them. Let me ask my question again: This question is about pentatonic but it also applies to most of the 7 note maj scales and its modes, but to keep the question simple it is about pentatonic.

E maj chord - E maj pentatonic -works
E min chord- E min pentatonic- works
Now here is my question.............

E maj chord - E min pentatonic-works even though notes don't fully match( major 3rd and minor 3rd)
E min chord - E maj pentatonic-Does not work. Why does min pentatonic work over a maj chord yet the reverse of that doesn't work.

The pentatonic scale is a simplified version of the minor scale.

E major and E minor can not work at the same time in theory. Pratically It might sound good. However you can not have a minor 3rd and a major 3rd in the same scale. You can have a minor 3rd and a diminished 4th, or a major third and a 4th but not a minor third and a major third. Scales containing a diminished 4th would not include diatonic major scales or their relative minors.

An E major chord is built from a major 3rd and a perfect 5th. These notes happen to be in the E major scale also. An E minor chord is built from a minor 3rd and a perfect 5th. These notes happen to be in the G major scale also.

Since E major contains notes from the E major scale and E min pentatonic contains notes from the G major scale they dont really work together. If you try to play them in harmony someone is playing in a different key.

Every major scale has a relative minor. The 6th step of the major scale is the tonic to its relative minor scale. All natural minor scales and major scales are relative to each other. C major = A minor, G major = E minor, D major = B minor, ect...

Originally Posted by: JoeNoviceBecause you're not using the right major scale. Play an A minor chord and improvise with C major arrpegios and a C major scale. You can do the same thing with F and G major (kind-of)
........

Minus the fact that there's an F# in Gmajor...

Back to the original question, the whoe theory behind blues is playing a minor based scale over a major based backing. That's what makes blues sound like blues. Major scales can work over a minor chord...I don't see why they couldn't.
C major, for instance, if you had a deceptive cadence on the VI (Am) that's a minor chord, and over it you'd be playing a major scale.

Originally Posted by: xpayxphonex E maj chord - E min pentatonic-works even though notes don't fully match( major 3rd and minor 3rd)
E min chord - E maj pentatonic-Does not work. Why does min pentatonic work over a maj chord yet the reverse of that doesn't work.

Because you're choosing the wrong notes to hang on.

Originally Posted by: xpayxphonex
E maj chord - E min pentatonic-works even though notes don't fully match( major 3rd and minor 3rd)
E min chord - E maj pentatonic-Does not work. Why does min pentatonic work over a maj chord yet the reverse of that doesn't work.

E minor pent works over the E maj chord because the b3 of the minor pent produces the blues note for a major chord ( major blues scale = 1, 2, b3, 5, b7). The b7 produces a dominant function to the E major chord.

E major pent over a E minor chords doesn't work because of the grouping of notes, around the harmonies very important 3rd.

E minor chord = E, G, B
E major pent = E, F#, G#, B, D

Put them together and u have a cluster : F#, G, and G#.

Thats why it doesnt work.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't a blue note a flatted third? I think that helps answer the question.

Originally Posted by: DeadInMagazinesCorrect me if I'm wrong...but isn't a blue note a flatted third? I think that helps answer the question.

The Blues Scale is a variation of the Minor Pentatonic.
It contains all the notes of the Minor Pentatonic, plus the diminished 5th.
So, the generic formula for the blues scale is:
[1-b3-4-b5-5-b7]
[E-G-A-Bb-B-D]
As you can see, the blue note is not the flatted third, but the diminished 5th.

blue note

In jazz and blues, blue notes are notes sung or played at a lower pitch than those of the major scale for expressive purposes. Typically the alteration is less than a semitone, but this varies among performers.

The blue notes correspond approximately to the flatted third, flatted fifth, and flatted seventh scale degrees, although they approximate non-equal tempered pitches found in African work songs; specifically, the flatted seventh may often be a justly tuned minor seventh. Blue notes are the most important notes in the blues scale.



Now I'm confused. Are you saying that playing blue notes are basically a penatonic scale with a diminished fifth, or that blue note is a term for a flatted fifth or augmented fourth?

Now I'm confused. Are you saying that playing blue notes are basically a penatonic scale with a diminished fifth, or that blue note is a term for a flatted fifth or augmented fourth?

Don`t be cofused.
Theoretically, the flatted 3rd and flatted 7th, are known as minor intervals,
When you are soloing using the Blues Scale, those are the notes that you target; those plus the real blue note (diminished 5th).
Usually you target those notes using bends that are not exact semitones,
they are slightly less than a semitone.

Haha, why the big explanations? I just asked for one or the other : p

[QUOTE=Hamberg]The pentatonic scale is a simplified version of the minor scale.

The minor pent scale is the 1st 2nd 3rd 5th and 6th intervals of the minor scale right?

Originally Posted by: equatorThe Blues Scale is a variation of the Minor Pentatonic.
It contains all the notes of the Minor Pentatonic, plus the diminished 5th.
So, the generic formula for the blues scale is:
[1-b3-4-b5-5-b7]
[E-G-A-Bb-B-D]
As you can see, the blue note is not the flatted third, but the diminished 5th.

Yeah, but that's a minor blues scale. in a Major Blues scale the blues note is b3.

I assume in 1-b3-4
You mean a minor third. It is a minor-based scale, after all.

Originally Posted by: paulharboskyThe minor pent scale is the 1st 2nd 3rd 5th and 6th intervals of the minor scale right?

1st 3rd 4th 5th and 7th.

So no.

Originally Posted by: xpayxphonexThat doesn't answer my question because C maj scale has the same notes as A min. And you can't do the same thing with F min and G maj. It would be E min and G maj because they have the same notes in them. Let me ask my question again: This question is about pentatonic but it also applies to most of the 7 note maj scales and its modes, but to keep the question simple it is about pentatonic.

E maj chord - E maj pentatonic -works
E min chord- E min pentatonic- works
Now here is my question.............

E maj chord - E min pentatonic-works even though notes don't fully match( major 3rd and minor 3rd)
E min chord - E maj pentatonic-Does not work. Why does min pentatonic work over a maj chord yet the reverse of that doesn't work.

Hi, newbie here!

Let me try to answer your question:

Generally speaking Minor scales do not work over major chords and vice versa. So why does an E-minor pentatonic scale work over the E-chord?

The chord you are talking about is - harmonically speaking - not a major chord but a dominant chord instead.
In your case you are not talking about a E(maj7) but E(7) chord. The extension note you would use with the E-chord would be a D and not a D#, right? Even if you don´t play the 7, it still has the sound of a Dominant chord when using a minor pentatonic over it (in other words: if you play bluesy/rock stuff over it).
With the develoment of da Blues the minor third over a Dom-chord became an aquired taste. This I why we feel that the minor pentatonics works over that chord. 150 years ago everybody with an european heritage would have yelled of pain because it would have sounded totally *off* for them.

Sounds logical? Hope it helps...
Christof

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollyson1st 3rd 4th 5th and 7th.

So no.

No. Pentatonic scale have no leading tone.

1st 3rd 4th 5th 6th

Originally Posted by: xpayxphonexWhy does for example Min pentonic and other min scales work over a maj chord, and a maj scale doesn't work over a min chord.

At the risk of repeating something already posted (I have not read the entire thread), I'll put my 2c in.

Let's use the A minor pentatonic scale and the A major chord for example.

The A major chord has the notes A, C# and E, which are the 1 (root), 3rd, and 5th.

The A minor pentatonic scale has the notes A, C, D, E, G, which are the 1, b3, 4, 5 and b7 notes.

When you play these notes over the A chord, it works because it sounds "bluesy" to your ears. Your ears kinda' fill in the blanks and no longer hear the A chord as just a plain A major triad, but as a dominant chord, in this case an A7 chord, which has the notes A, C#, E and G, which are the 1, 3, 5 and b7 notes.

Hey, what about that C note in the A minor pentatonic? That still doesn't match.

Correct, but nearly a hundred years of jazzy/bluesy lines in popular music has our ears very used to hearing "extensions" and "alterations" of notes when played with Dominant 7th chords. Your ear hears the C note as a #9 altered extension of the chord.

The same is not true when playing a straight A major scale over the A minor chord. The b3, in this case the note C, is what makes the chord minor. You can play all the other notes in the A major scale over that A minor chord, but if you play that C# note, it absolutely looses any chance of sounding "minor" to your ear.

This all depends on the context of what other chords are being played, what the bass line is, etc. For instance, you can probably play some kinda' chromatic sequence including the C note, something like C, C#, D, A over the Aminor chord and make it sound cool, but then you are no longer playing a straight, plain ole' A major scale.

Peace,
Rico

No. Pentatonic scale have no leading tone.

Sorry buddy..... Jolly's right on this one. Minor Pentatonic has the lowered 7th and no 6th. Lowered 7th is not a leading tone (1/2 Step ). The Major Pentatonic has the 6th.

I believe Jolly is referring to the minor.