Sorry but......Dimebag vs. Hammett

In my opinion, Dimebag KO 2nd round. Dimebag had much more heart and soul, not to mention much more god given talent. (one of the best players ever that didn't know anything about theory)

Originally Posted by: dakine80In my opinion, Dimebag KO 2nd round. Dimebag had much more heart and soul, not to mention much more god given talent. (one of the best players ever that didn't know anything about theory)

Both have tone you'd never want to imitate ever. But Dimebag would destroy hammet first punch (or wailing shred) of first round, no question.

Yep Dime... although I'm with you guys - I'm not really impressed by either of them. It might just be me, but I'm not sure Mr Hammett can keep time as well as you'd think he could...

I never really believe that players know nothing about the theory.... it just sounds cool if you can get people to believe that you're so good that you just pick up a guitar and start banging out random notes, and it all fits... I guess they may not know they know... :rolleyes:

I read an interview with Dime before where he said he knew nothing about theory or the names of scales, he just worked it out what sounded good slowly then sped things up when he was happy with a particular lick.

Man, I don't know what the fuss about Dime is at all, I have to say Hammet is a better player in terms of musical expression. I do agree that Hammet went downhill in a big way in recent years though. Anybody who doubts his ability to shred should check out the Justice For All album... tracks like Shortest Straw and Blackened have amazing lead parts. Also his leads on the first three albums although not the most original were entirely memorable and had a definite groove (most of them anyway).

Dime was a great player but I think he went downhill too, especially over the last three Pantera albums. The leads on the Cowboys From Hell album were excellent and had style of their own but I think the band in general traded technical skill and musicality for groove and ease of playing in live situations after Vulger Display of Power (much the same with Metallica after Justice For All). If you have all of both bands albums, ask yourself this, what are each players two best leads... then compare them... Dime's were brilliant but I reckon Hammet still wins hands down.

Just my 2 cents

Kirk Hammett:
1.Fade to Black- Although very memorable and inspirational (for beginers)
it's just a well choreographed collection of simple natural minor playing, mixed with minor pentatonics. If you can play this note for note, as well as Hammett........so what.

Dimebag:
1.Cemetary Gates- Wow! I don't care who you are, but you have to admit
this is one kick a** solo! A pure case of virtuosoism and excellent writing. After the well written intro to the solo, he busts out into fiery chromatic scale with unique Vai like tapping and the rest is a combo of minor pentatonic
and blazing chromatics. Just as memorable as F2B outro, if not more so. If you can play this note for note, as well as Dimebag, you need to be making records.

Winner: Cemetary Gates

SOLO 2
Kirk Hammett:
2. Shortest Straw (since you mentioned it)- Not exacty as popular as some other of Hammett's leads but from a musician's standpoint, this one may be his best. Oh yes , that's right, Hammett knows more theory than we thought.
Impressive trem work,(for Hammett) starts it off, then he uses more scalar modes in one solo than he did in his entire career(ie;dorian, jazz arpegios, major scales, etc.) In my opinion, his most impressive.

Dimebag:
2. Psycho Holiday- Yet another kick a** solo. This solo is not only well written, but probably Dime's most technically difficult lead. While it doesn't have the theory of the shortest straw solo(who cares), it's a long, long lead,
especially when you're trying to play through it yourself. It has everything from awkward tapping to wide finger stretches and you must be very accurate and very fast. If you're even the slightest bit splay fingered, forget it.

Winner:Psycho Holiday
Oh and as for riff writing between them, you can forget that too.

MY 2 cents :D

Originally Posted by: CW14Any guitarist who has written a solo must know at least SOMETHING about theory. It seems to me that the only theory Hammet knows is the pentatonic scale though

Hammet uses natural minor quite a bit...

Originally Posted by: dakine80Kirk Hammett:
1.Fade to Black- Although very memorable and inspirational (for beginers)
it's just a well choreographed collection of simple natural minor playing, mixed with minor pentatonics. If you can play this note for note, as well as Hammett........so what.

Dimebag:
1.Cemetary Gates- Wow! I don't care who you are, but you have to admit
this is one kick a** solo! A pure case of virtuosoism and excellent writing. After the well written intro to the solo, he busts out into fiery chromatic scale with unique Vai like tapping and the rest is a combo of minor pentatonic
and blazing chromatics. Just as memorable as F2B outro, if not more so. If you can play this note for note, as well as Dimebag, you need to be making records.

Winner: Cemetary Gates

SOLO 2
Kirk Hammett:
2. Shortest Straw (since you mentioned it)- Not exacty as popular as some other of Hammett's leads but from a musician's standpoint, this one may be his best. Oh yes , that's right, Hammett knows more theory than we thought.
Impressive trem work,(for Hammett) starts it off, then he uses more scalar modes in one solo than he did in his entire career(ie;dorian, jazz arpegios, major scales, etc.) In my opinion, his most impressive.

Dimebag:
2. Psycho Holiday- Yet another kick a** solo. This solo is not only well written, but probably Dime's most technically difficult lead. While it doesn't have the theory of the shortest straw solo(who cares), it's a long, long lead,
especially when you're trying to play through it yourself. It has everything from awkward tapping to wide finger stretches and you must be very accurate and very fast. If you're even the slightest bit splay fingered, forget it.

Winner:Psycho Holiday
Oh and as for riff writing between them, you can forget that too.

MY 2 cents :D

That's not really fair. You can't take two of Dimebag's best solo's and compare them to something like Fade to Black. Master of Puppets and Leper Messiah might be more fair.

Originally Posted by: CW14Imagine what Metallica would be like if Mustaine stayed with them...

Call me crazy, but it might just sound exactly like Megadeth. Sounds similar enough as is.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonThat's not really fair. You can't take two of Dimebag's best solo's and compare them to something like Fade to Black. Master of Puppets and Leper Messiah might be more fair.

You're right, but either way the solos of Cemetary Gates and Psycho Holiday are just better, guitar playing wise, than anything Hammett ever laid down. If you think about it, Dimebag really only had 2 albums in which he played long 80's metal type solos(not counting the first 4 sh**y ones with Terry Glaze and Phil with the material girl hairdo.) Hammett was in a band nearly based around solos and had 5 albums(not counting the crap after the black album.)

I think Mustaine only became a quality guitarist when Marty Friedman joined Megadeth and started giving him free lessons:-) So Far So Good was devoid of good solo parts and all of the best leads on Peace Sells were by Chris Poland. If you look back to Killing Is My Business, Mustaine was brilliant at rhythm but horrible at lead. At the time, Hamett was a far better player, leagues ahead of Mustaine and fresh out of lessons from Satriani.

I do admit though, Mustaine definitely improved with age whereas Hammett went downhill in a big way after Justice For All. What also tips the scales in Mustaines favour is the fact that he's not afraid to try something new and he always likes to challenge his ability... I saw him live years back on the Rust in Peace tour... man I still can't get my head around how he could play tracks like Polaris while singing at the same time... the mans brain is wired differently that the rest of us, that's for sure.

The fact remains though, ALL of Megadeth's best leads, without exception, were played by Marty Friedman. What makes them more impressive is that he was actually holding back compared to the crazy stuff he played with Jason Becker in Cacophony.

Yea I personally think Marty is the better guitarist out of Dime or Kirk. But actually when in an interview with Marty, he was asked why he dosent play Cacaphony style like Becker. He answered because it was thoughtless music, and was basically wanking and not even thinking about soloing. Just playing whatever. Then he ended off my sayind his solo's from the RISK album is far more advanced musically than any of his Cacaphony solos.

But I have to agree with him, his solos in Megadeth sound spectacular, Tornado of Souls and Lucritia are awesome solos with wonderfull composition.

I think if anyone likes Cacaphony because of shred, they might aswell listen to Micheal Angelo Batio...

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Originally Posted by: CW14So because this song is not a blatant shredfest, it is only inspirational to beginners?

I barely even consider difficulty when judging the quality of a solo. This is one of my favourites from Kirk, but I do agree with you that it doesn't quite stack up against some of Dime's stuff."

In most ways, yes, it's just more inspirational to beginners because to them it sounds extremely difficult to play. I think you must consider technique and skill and, yes, difficulty, when you're judging guitar playing.

It's what separates the Yngwies from the Billy Corgans.
You may not care for Yngwies work(not you in paticular, of course) and love Smashing Pumpkins, but the fact is Yngwie is a much better GUITAR PLAYER than Billy Corgan.

Originally Posted by: CW14I think Mustaine writes better solos than Hammet

If he was kept well away from the microphone and just given a guitar, I think that would have worked well.

AMEN to that.

This is a tough matchup.... At least it's a fair matchup too. But I can't decide...

Originally Posted by: CW14So because Fade to Black is easy to play, that means that it's musically inferior to something by, say, Yngwie?

It seems to me as though speed and technique is the only thing that you are basing your opinions on. There is more to a solo than rapid note-hitting.

Listen to a solo like "Comfortably Numb" by Pink Floyd. It sounds easy to play, but it's still a musical masterpiece

You've got me wrong, I also take into account how well the playing complimented the song, how cool it sounded, and how much feeling was put into the peice. I used Yngwie and Corgan as an example because they're miles apart. But when guitarists are in the same genre, that encourages speed and technique, I felt it should be used as kind of a tie-braker.

While Yngwie is more technicaly proficient than guys like David Gilmour, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Carlos Santana, Dimebag, Slash, etc., I'd much rather listen to their stuff because on average it's better written and played with more feeling.

Steve Vai's stuff is "harder to play" and is in most cases a "blatant shred fest" compared to Satriani, but I'd rather listen to Satriani because, again, I think he writes better, catchier tunes and has more feeling.

Originally Posted by: dakine80Steve Vai's stuff is "harder to play" and is in most cases a "blatant shred fest" compared to Satriani, but I'd rather listen to Satriani because, again, I think he writes better, catchier tunes and has more feeling.

I'd agree that by and large Satch's tunes are catchier. But I completely disagree with most of Vai's songs being a "blatant shred fest". Vai is very tasteful with his note selection. The jury's still out for me on who plays with "more feeling" as that's a quality that's difficult to quantify.

Originally Posted by: LeedoggI'd agree that by and large Satch's tunes are catchier. But I completely disagree with most of Vai's songs being a "blatant shred fest". Vai is very tasteful with his note selection. The jury's still out for me on who plays with "more feeling" as that's a quality that's difficult to quantify.

I knew it would only take a couple of minutes before someone jumped on me for that. I think alot of Vai's stuff is written just to "raise the bar", which I commend, he is a guitar god. As far as feeling goes, I guess you can only base that on an opinion consesus, but you have to admit that you can clearly distinguish a level of feeling between, say, Vai and Vaughn, as opposed to Vai and Satriani.

So it 2 pages for a debate between hammett and dimebag from the original topic leading to vai and satriani soon after. It takes more licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop than it does pages for people to get side tracked.

Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsSo it 2 pages for a debate between hammett and dimebag from the original topic leading to vai and satriani soon after. It takes more licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop than it does pages for people to get side tracked.

sorry, I will not speak of Vai again!! What a mistake.

That said DIMEBAG RULES OVER HAMMETT. He is better, and if you think different, tell me why!!!

Originally Posted by: CW14That's cool. It just seemed that way from what I'd read.

My point though, is that just because Fade to Black is easy, doesn't mean that it's only inspirational to beginners because it sounds hard to them. It's music, and it can be enjoyed by anyone regardless of their level of playing.

Couldnt have put it better myself!

I hate it when people make out as if the best music is hte most complex and technically good.

One of my favourite songs is little wing, which is easy to play.

HENDRIX IS GOD!