how to: make a good song


Cryptic Excretions
Attorney at Law
Joined: 01/31/04
Posts: 3,055
Cryptic Excretions
Attorney at Law
Joined: 01/31/04
Posts: 3,055
04/06/2005 3:00 pm
I tend to handle song structure with care. I don't like making my music linear and would follow "screw the system" any day over making a basic song. I've written material that's turned into linear songs (that I'm still editing and re-writing) that just never satisfied me like my non-linear tracks. I don't like predictable music too much and try to keep my material as unpredictable as possible. Also let the record show I've written about an EP worth of songs and it takes me freaking forever to get one song down. By that I mean, for the 3 years I've been playing, it took me 2 of those years to write one song. Of course I wrote others along the way, but that one song was the proverbial "bigger fish to fry" and all the rest was seemingly of lesser expectations. Not to say I'm not proud of the others, but the one I put more focus into and now that it's done. You get the idea. But the structure isn't anything in particular. There are verses strewn about, but no chorus what so ever and everything between the verses is varying. I dunno, I hold expectations with my music and I'd rather take the absurdly long amount of time to see to it that my music doesn't suck. Being linear is, in my opinion, being limiting.

But what I just said doesn't help you any. So let me add to this. Writing good songs takes time, a lot of patience and observance. Think about what would be best for the song. Say you have that 3 chord passage, whatever may come after that might not be so much based around the guitar, maybe a bass fill or some drums or whatever. If the next piece sort of fits but you feel like it could be better, then it probably can. Don't settle for anything but the best that you can bring and just because you've "finished" a song, doesn't mean you can't salvage it for parts, re-write it, or scrap it completely later. Remember, "rules" are more guidelines than anything else in music. If there was a set way of doing things then a lot of songs never would've been made.
The Gods Made Heavy Metal, And They Saw That It Was Good
They Said To Play It Louder Than Hell, We Promised That We Would

Hulk Smash!!

Whatever you do, don't eat limes. A friend of mine ate a lime once and BAM!! Two years later. Herpes.
# 1
Jackson#1
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Joined: 04/07/05
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Jackson#1
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04/07/2005 11:44 pm
If you want a way to look at. Think of movies, the first thing that a movie has is something that catches the viewers attention. In the same way your song must have that. To catch the ear of the person listening so they don't turn the dial. Next is the verse or the story build up, it's what introduces and build up the song or the movie. Chorus is gonna be the catchy part, everything that somebody is gonna remember. So the song is basically built around the chorus(something you want the listeners to understand or get out of the song). The ending is big and has to be dramatic, it will need to be something that will make the person want to listen to the song again. Most of it comes down to originallity, make the song your own and how its built!!! ;)
# 2
Cryptic Excretions
Attorney at Law
Joined: 01/31/04
Posts: 3,055
Cryptic Excretions
Attorney at Law
Joined: 01/31/04
Posts: 3,055
04/08/2005 3:52 pm
Originally Posted by: Jackson#1If you want a way to look at. Think of movies, the first thing that a movie has is something that catches the viewers attention. In the same way your song must have that. To catch the ear of the person listening so they don't turn the dial. Next is the verse or the story build up, it's what introduces and build up the song or the movie. Chorus is gonna be the catchy part, everything that somebody is gonna remember. So the song is basically built around the chorus(something you want the listeners to understand or get out of the song). The ending is big and has to be dramatic, it will need to be something that will make the person want to listen to the song again. Most of it comes down to originallity, make the song your own and how its built!!! ;)


Good metaphor. And to build off that, is your song gonna be like one of those movies where you can tell what's gonna happen next or is it more like one that you think you know what's going on but in actuality you don't? One could spend all day branching off that one alone, but I'll leave it at that because I don't feel like being redundant right now. I'll give you all a break.
The Gods Made Heavy Metal, And They Saw That It Was Good
They Said To Play It Louder Than Hell, We Promised That We Would

Hulk Smash!!

Whatever you do, don't eat limes. A friend of mine ate a lime once and BAM!! Two years later. Herpes.
# 3
crazywolf
Samson
Joined: 01/26/05
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crazywolf
Samson
Joined: 01/26/05
Posts: 371
04/09/2005 9:03 pm
Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsRemember, "rules" are more guidelines than anything else in music. If there was a set way of doing things then a lot of songs never would've been made.

Very good point, and good advice!!
Music is all about self expression, how can you express truely how you feel if you have all these restrictions and/or rules to follow?
1 Peter 2:16
# 4
Theoryman#1
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Joined: 04/14/05
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Theoryman#1
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04/14/2005 4:49 am
When it comes to writing licks and riffs (I'm assuming rock is the genre in question but this method works for metal too) I find its best to learn some basic blues riffs and elaborate on them or to play with basic power chords starting on the A string.
# 5
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
Crime Fighter
Joined: 08/04/02
Posts: 1,518
04/16/2005 5:19 pm
If you talk to any professional songwriter, they will tell you that songwritting is a craft. It's a lot like building a house. You start with a foundation. Which in music, one basic idea (in music terms, a motive). I would suggest searching the internet for a more in depth explanation on what a motive is. As for a small explanation here, a motive is a small section of music (usually only a few measures long) that becomes the basis of the entire song. The most recognizable motive in Western music is Beethoven's 5th Symphony, 1st movement (dadada-da). That simple four note idea not only makes the whole first movement, but it's also the basis for the entire symphony.

Motives can be melodic, harmonic or rhythmic. So if you can come up with a small segment of music in one of the above three, you can write an entire song based on that part alone. A motive is the magic tool for crafting a song. And when your done, by using a motive the entire piece will seem like it all fits and should be there. A motive is the atom of music.

One you got a motive, you definitely don't want to keep repeating it exactly for the entire length of the song. Thus there are many ways to alter it, while yet keeping it coherent with the song. Here are some ways to do this.

1) Add to the motive.
In harmony, you might have this I - V, use addition to go I - IV -V.
In melody, you can add passing tones or embellishments (great for solos).
In rhythm, you might have straight quarter notes as a motive, try adding two eighths in place of one quarter.

2) Delete a segment of the motive.
In harmony, it would be the opposite of above.
In melody, you may have a melody in 4/4 time. You could take out the passing tones, etc. Or you could delete a part of the melody itself. Going back to the first sentence, you may play the melody up the third beat in 4/4, and then fill the last two beats with rests. This is also called, fragmenting the melody. A powerful tool usually used in intros, build-up, and pre-climaxes.
In rhythm, you may have had straight quarter notes, replace one with a quarter note rest.

3) Augmentation of the motive.
In harmony, your chords by bar may look like this: 2/4| I . | V . |. Try this 2/4| I . | . V |.
In melody, the note values are lengthened. So a melody with straight quarter notes might become the same melody but with half notes.
In rhythm, it would be the same as the melody.

4) Diminution of the motive.
In all, it is the exact opposite of augmenting the motive.

5) Transposing the motive.
In harmony, you might have I - V. One thing you could do is ii - vi, or you could go II - VI. The first one is called fake transposition, due to the fact that it is not a carbon copy of the original motive, meaning that some alteration must take place (I[major] became ii[minor], etc.). The second one is called real transposition, because it is a carbon copy of the original. The results of each imply that a fake trans. will remain in the original key, while a real trans. will change the key.
In melody it is the same thing. Say you have a melody that goes B to C. A fake trans. might change to F to G. While a real transposition might go F to Gb. When using this tool, a melodic motive will use something called sequencing. This is taking each motive and playing it each time at a different pitch level, then you judge whether to use fake or real trans.
As for rhythm, the tool is unfunctional. You just can't transpose a rhythm.

6) Inverting the motive.
In melodies, you look at the direction from note to note. If the first notes goes up a major third to the second note, inverting it would be going down a major third to the second note, and then on. Here you run into fake and real again.

Lets say go C to E in the key of C, which is a major third. Now if you go down a major third from C you go to Ab. Now Ab is not in the key of C, so this would be real transposition, since alterations must be made. The fake transposition would be going from C down to A. The key is the "third", the melody moves three steps up in a scale, inversion would be third steps down in the scale. Then you choose whether to use fake or real transposition.

With harmony it is the same way, if you have the chords I to V. Now here the root from the first chord to the second went up a fifth, inverting it would be going down a fifth to IV. (I VII VI V IV); I to IV. Here as a beginners rule, I would say stay in key with your harmony. I suggest going I to VI instead of I to bVI. At least until you understand to function of some of the chords you’ll get with real transposition.

7) Retrogradation of the motive.
In harmony, it would be playing the sequence backwards. So if you had I-V as the original motive, retrograding it would be V-I.
In melody, you would play it backwards.
In rhythm, the same.

As you can see, one idea can go a long way with just using these tools. The important thing is all of these or a combination of these tools keeps the music coherent. But it all starts with a creative spark and my suggestion is to continue with that, and use these tools when you get stuck. They all work, and you will probably find that you have used some of them without even knowing.

A song can contain more than one motive, or a section(s) where there is no motive. One at a time, I’ll say that music with more than one motive results in one of two things. A jumbled mess of incoherent music, or a long piece of music. The key is to balance between each result. A jumbled mess is the result of two many motives coming together to fast in the music. A piece with several motives could go on for days. So the fewer the motives the better, 2 is usually the max. 3 motives are usually heard in symphonies that are 20-30 minutes long. 4 or more motives constitutes an entire symphony.

When there is no motive, the section is referred to as episodic. An episode is like a bridge, connecting each motific idea together. Here’s a sample form where a episode might be used. (E= episode, M = motive, # -motive tool used)

2 M E 3

As for song forms, there is no rule on what to use. Pop music wants to be ABABCB because it keeps the music short and to the points, those guys don’t want to hear a song much longer than 3 minutes long.

That’s all for now. :)
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 6

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