Virtuosos and the mainstream

A good guitarist, or should I say "enjoyable" guitarist; one who is pleasant too listen to should have an equal amount of technique (50%) and soul (50%) in his playing. If the scale is unbalanced the music can become boring fast. Shredders are cool to listen to, once, but it can become old to the ears quick. Same with guys who play with all soul and little technique, like Buddy Guy and Santana, they too can become boring and predictable. Guys like Hendrix, Larry Carlton, Robben Ford, Trey Anastosio, and Dickie Betts never seem to wear my ears out.

I don't think you can say any of the previously listed guitarists suck, aside from personal opinion. IMO they are all very good at what they do, but I wouldn't have called them all virtuosos. Virtuoso by definition may mean very skillful in the technical aspects of an art (music), but to be a masterful musician you should understand and be just as skillful in all the aspects of music. And to me having such a high level of technical skill doesn't limit itself to just being able to play ridiculously fast or playing the most complex and difficult song competently. I mean just because one song is harder to play than another, that doesn't mean the harder song is a better song. A good song to me is one that captures the listener and takes the listener into the mental state of the musician that wrote it. From the first note to the last, the song is a journey and by writting good character to every section of the music; the musician is able to make the listener feel every step of the journey. I think when you listen or reach a level to where you can effect the listener in such a profound way, then you are a virtuoso. Very few (very few) shredders effect me in such a way. Maybe because fast playing is exciting, but when everything is exciting. How do you know it's exciting when you can't compare it to something relaxing (or any other effect)? Or when there are just hundreds of notes pushed together, I'm reminded of the saying "sometimes less is better". Alot of those guys just overdo everything. And when you overdo something the character suffers, and if the character suffers the interest in what is going on goes down the tube. I would enjoy shredding much more if suching soloing was placed in better musical situations, and not overdone when it is done. Theres just so much more to music than being technical. Music is an art not a decathalon and music would be much better IMO if musicians would stop making music a competition of "whos faster" or "who's the best technically". Instead have more music that has expression and covers the full range which this art gives us. That's just how I feel.

Originally Posted by: kingdavidThe other day we we're arguing about a certain newspaper columnist who uses grammar that is so out of touch with everyday speech,to the point where you hardly ever understand what he's talking about.Most of the time,he just plain pisses you off.
I'm sure all the words he uses are out there in the dictionary,but he sounds much like a grammatical wankster,spewing things you'd have to look up.
My friend argued that the author was cool,he's on this level you can't reach him,blah blah blah.He also went to on to add that he(my friend) was a wordsmith.I told him that I too was a wordsmith(this is an opinion held by quite a few of the people who've been to my site,amongst other literary places I've been).He then goes of and asks me:
"What is......."
"What is ........"
Words whose meaning I didn't understand.
I told him that if we use the term wordsmith a la ironsmith,then what he was doing was holding up a piece of fine iron he had in his workshop,or a tool from his toolbox,not being a wordsmith.And while you need to have both the iron to work on the tools to work with,possesion of both is not being an iron smith.
It's a similar story with the virtuosos.
They don't keep in touch with their audiences.And music is communication.Guitar is not a one way process,where there's just you,the virtuoso,burning me,the listener,with your skill and speed and what have.It has to go both ways.And if I can't relate to what you're doing,you've basically lost it,since it beats the point of me being your audience if I don't understand you.
That's how I see it.

Well, for a start, a wordsmith would put two spaces after a period! :rolleyes:

I'm in Canada and i can tell that there is a strong fan base for all the guitar virtuosos. It is a big guitar community here so those names dont go unheard.

Originally Posted by: iamthe_eggmanWell, for a start, a wordsmith would put two spaces after a period! :rolleyes:

I said wordsmith,not spellsmith!Who you rolling eyes at?
BTW, I thought the whole spacing thing is done by word processors,coz some fonts will have letters touching if not separated thus?

I have seen many people out there, in these very forums, that commend and soil many names. Most of those names include Satriani, Vai, Petrucci...but if you come to think about, walk up to somone that is NOT a guitar player (yes, drop your ego for a minute) and ask them if they can name a Joe Satriani song, you will find that they simply can't (unless they live with a guitarist). Now, go up to that same person and ask them to name any SOLO Steve Vai song, (not when he was with "Diamond" David Lee Roth) they can't. Granted, I will give John Petrucci some leway, beacause he is in Dream Theater, (my drummer's favorite band...I wonder why :rolleyes: ...).

But when it all comes down to it what are the names and songs of guitarists that peole actually know and love, Eddie Van Halen, he wrote such party-rockin' classics as "Panama", "Runnin' With the Devil", "Jamie's Cryin'", and who doesn't know "Hot for Teacher", but who can forget "Eruption"!!!! If you just read that, and any of those songs didn't come back to you, you need not play guitar ever again. But Eddie is not the only one, what about the greats such as Dimbag, Vinnie Vincent, Dave Mustaine, Angus Young, any random rocker from the late 70's-early 80's, and my personal favorite, Ted Nugent. (Excuse ME :mad: if I left anybody out...)

My point is this, you can't write a good song unless it captures the listener, touches them in the most inner part of their soul, that angst, that attitude. For example, have you ever heard an Joe Satriani song that made you want to just jump up, headbang, and play air guitar on the couch the same way AC/DC's "Back in Black" could, or how about pumping your fist in the air to a course of Metallica's "Seek and Destroy"???

I want you all to sit down, put some Ted Nugent in the CD player and just feel the energy, grab that energy, look at it, that is your *new* inspiration...

Before anybody get terribly pissed at me, think, you know that I am right...
ITS NOT ABOUT THE GUITAR, ITS ABOUT THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by: mortalkombatmanFor example, have you ever heard an Joe Satriani song that made you want to just jump up, headbang, and play air guitar on the couch the same way AC/DC's "Back in Black" could, or how about pumping your fist in the air to a course of Metallica's "Seek and Destroy"???

Since when was that the goal of Satriani's music??? :confused:

That's like asking why Cheap Trick's "Dream Police" doesn't make you want to ballroom dance.

Originally Posted by: mortalkombatmanI have seen many people out there, in these very forums, that commend and soil many names. Most of those names include Satriani, Vai, Petrucci...but if you come to think about, walk up to somone that is NOT a guitar player (yes, drop your ego for a minute) and ask them if they can name a Joe Satriani song, you will find that they simply can't (unless they live with a guitarist). Now, go up to that same person and ask them to name any SOLO Steve Vai song, (not when he was with "Diamond" David Lee Roth) they can't. Granted, I will give John Petrucci some leway, beacause he is in Dream Theater, (my drummer's favorite band...I wonder why :rolleyes: ...).

But when it all comes down to it what are the names and songs of guitarists that peole actually know and love, Eddie Van Halen, he wrote such party-rockin' classics as "Panama", "Runnin' With the Devil", "Jamie's Cryin'", and who doesn't know "Hot for Teacher", but who can forget "Eruption"!!!! If you just read that, and any of those songs didn't come back to you, you need not play guitar ever again. But Eddie is not the only one, what about the greats such as Dimbag, Vinnie Vincent, Dave Mustaine, Angus Young, any random rocker from the late 70's-early 80's, and my personal favorite, Ted Nugent. (Excuse ME :mad: if I left anybody out...)

My point is this, you can't write a good song unless it captures the listener, touches them in the most inner part of their soul, that angst, that attitude. For example, have you ever heard an Joe Satriani song that made you want to just jump up, headbang, and play air guitar on the couch the same way AC/DC's "Back in Black" could, or how about pumping your fist in the air to a course of Metallica's "Seek and Destroy"???

I want you all to sit down, put some Ted Nugent in the CD player and just feel the energy, grab that energy, look at it, that is your *new* inspiration...

Before anybody get terribly pissed at me, think, you know that I am right...
ITS NOT ABOUT THE GUITAR, ITS ABOUT THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well music has changed alot. If many of those classics that you mentioned were released nowadays, they would go just unheard of as Satch's new stuff. Heck, i have friends who say "Led Zeppelin, is he dead?".

I agree totally, that music has to capture the listener. But the listeners nowadays are different form those back in the Halen/ACDC era.

So that doesn't necessarily make Satch's music bad.

Originally Posted by: mortalkombatmanI have seen many people out there, in these very forums, that commend and soil many names. Most of those names include Satriani, Vai, Petrucci...but if you come to think about, walk up to somone that is NOT a guitar player (yes, drop your ego for a minute) and ask them if they can name a Joe Satriani song, you will find that they simply can't (unless they live with a guitarist). Now, go up to that same person and ask them to name any SOLO Steve Vai song, (not when he was with "Diamond" David Lee Roth) they can't. Granted, I will give John Petrucci some leway, beacause he is in Dream Theater, (my drummer's favorite band...I wonder why :rolleyes: ...).

But when it all comes down to it what are the names and songs of guitarists that peole actually know and love, Eddie Van Halen, he wrote such party-rockin' classics as "Panama", "Runnin' With the Devil", "Jamie's Cryin'", and who doesn't know "Hot for Teacher", but who can forget "Eruption"!!!! If you just read that, and any of those songs didn't come back to you, you need not play guitar ever again. But Eddie is not the only one, what about the greats such as Dimbag, Vinnie Vincent, Dave Mustaine, Angus Young, any random rocker from the late 70's-early 80's, and my personal favorite, Ted Nugent. (Excuse ME :mad: if I left anybody out...)

My point is this, you can't write a good song unless it captures the listener, touches them in the most inner part of their soul, that angst, that attitude. For example, have you ever heard an Joe Satriani song that made you want to just jump up, headbang, and play air guitar on the couch the same way AC/DC's "Back in Black" could, or how about pumping your fist in the air to a course of Metallica's "Seek and Destroy"???

I want you all to sit down, put some Ted Nugent in the CD player and just feel the energy, grab that energy, look at it, that is your *new* inspiration...

Before anybody get terribly pissed at me, think, you know that I am right...
ITS NOT ABOUT THE GUITAR, ITS ABOUT THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are totaly right when u say its about the music BUT it is about the guitar too for the people who like satch, vai and petrucci as well as other guitarists. They have attained a Guitar level us mere mortals prob wont reach but thats why most musicians like them and its ok to like more mainstream artists too, we all like AC/DC and u mentiond Ted Nugent but Vai Satch and Petrucci put the same energy into their music as all of the mentiond Artists or bands.. I get the same buzz from from listening to Joe's Satch Boogie or Dreamtheaters Metropolis part 1 etc.. as I do from listening to AC/DC back in black.. its all a matter of personal taste .. songs by these guitarists have captured thousands of listeners.. yea they may not be mainstream and I for one am glad I dont want to see these Artists or Bands on the mainstream bandwagon.. thats why they play what the play and thats why me and thousands of other people listen to them..