Theory

It really annoys me when people that dont know any theory and i'm talking about people who dont know the difference between E and E minor. Then you get people saying how good they are. Also i find it stupid when people that dont have lessons tell me that lessons are bad and that you dont pick up your own style.

Well classic I heard, from a guy who wanted to join my band was, "oh you tune down half a step, I tune standard but that will give our sound a thickness".... LOL!! No well jus be playing outa tune!

I think lessons help you discover your own style.

"I Suffer:
I think lessons help you discover your own style."

without a doubt otherwise yo generally end up playin other bands music as you wont have the throery that alows you to move into diferent styles an areas on guitar. also lessons generally introduce you into new styles of music like jazz (mmmm smooth) so helps you individulise your style even further.

Well said :)

Originally posted by Axl_Rose
"oh you tune down half a step, I tune standard but that will give our sound a thickness

LOL
Just today I had such fun , I was with some friends and a guy I don't know who had this guitar with 2 LOW E strings (one normaly low E , and the other instead of the D !!) ... Even funnier, he thought that the whammy bar is what kirk hammett used for the wah sound in "Enter Sandman" , he also called it the "Wah Bar" !


Back to topic , I think every guitarist should know at least some basic theory about scales and chords.

Originally posted by Jimmi431

without a doubt otherwise yo generally end up playin other bands music

Thats what one of my friends does. All he does is play metallica songs all the time and a few iron maiden songs. They sound quite cool but he will never be able to create his own songs without some theory.

Its not fair though. He has one of the best marshall half stacks you can get and 4 really expensive guitars(most over £500)

I know a pretty good deal of theory, I'm no noticingthemistake or chris_mood, but I understand most of it.

I don't think you need to have lessons to develop your own style. I've never taken lessons, just learned on my own, and I know I have a distinct style.

Most everyone who picks up a guitar, goes through the Metallica phase, if they're into that kind of music. They're fun songs to jam with friends too. But dissecting other players styles help you come up with your own ideas.

Sure, there are some people that would be better off with lessons, as mentioned earlier, but that doesn't relate to everyone.

I barley know any theory, i know the basic notation and my keys... but nothing else after that. I'm only in 8th grade, so next year at the 9th grade and up, they offer theory courses that i am going to defiatley take.

I mena i can play better than most of the KIDS in my town and in the area, but all fo the know theory.

I do not think theory makes you a better player, but it does maek you a better songwriter, and a better improver... so in some way .. yah .. theory helps alot.
but there are many guitarists that are great that don't know theor.

But overall, theory helps a whole lot, more than what ppl think.

I've never taken lessons in my life.. and i have a distinct style ( knid of satrianish/ Vaughanish.... but im not even 1/1000 the guitarist either of them are). But i aslo did have my metallica stage, and about 80 % of my playing is playing other musicians songs... but i have my own kool liks.

ciao

[Edited by DreamRyche2112 on 02-04-2004 at 08:18 PM]

Originally posted by Death55
Its not fair though. He has one of the best marshall half stacks you can get and 4 really expensive guitars(most over £500) [/B]

Thats me LOL!

Erm.. well I think every band that surfaces is a culmination of previous bands. I dont think theory is that important, all thats needed is your basic scales and the concepts of whats in key and whats not.
Really its experience and depth in influences that makes you sound like you sound.
Music is very formulated, you dont neccessarliy have to understand why the 4 chords youve chosen sound great together, maybe you just recall a similar song in which those songs featured.

I've never taken lessons but most of what I do is developing technique and learning theory (I'm mostly working on sweeping now). I don't do covers very often but I do have a very well developed style.

I don't think it's possible to develop a clear personal style without being knowledgeable, at least to a certain extent. I'm thinking of that wah bar person right here, btw.

Death55- *They sound quite cool but he will never be able to create his own songs without some theory.*

Im going to have to disagree with that somewhat...i can write my own songs but i dont know any theory...im dumb as a rock when it comes to theory...i know scales by box positions which is a horrible habit but im not sure if you consider that theory...theres plenty of musicians that dont know any theory but still play great..some may just have a good ear..im sure it would be nice to know theory but i dont have anytime

Originally posted by Death55
They sound quite cool but he will never be able to create his own songs without some theory.

Originally posted by Hammurabi
I don't think it's possible to develop a clear personal style without being knowledgeable, at least to a certain extent.

I'm going to take it a step further than ketsueki and disagree [u]completely[/u]. How many legendary guitarists do you think know a lick of theory? Robert Johnson? BB King? David Gilmour? Slash? SRV? Edge?

Now, perhaps these guys can list how many sharps there are in the key of F major or whatever, but do you think that they lie awake at night (well, not Robert Johnson or SRV) in a cold sweat, worried that they'll never develop their own style or write beautiful music without learning the Hungarian harmonic minor in all its positions on the fretboard?

Theory is not meant to dominate us and dictate where we can take music; think of Mozart - he was a master over theory, and made it do whatever he wanted it to. Even with the limits he had imposed on him by the state of music in those days. Theory is just a tool, and we make use of it, then put it back in its little box and close the lid.

Who wants to listen to music to be awed by the music theory behind it? Music is meant to move on a much more basic level than that; granted, while still operating at higher levels.

Music should come from the gut, not the brain.

[/rant]

i´ve said it about 50 million times, but i´ll sy it again:

Learn as much theory as necessary, but as little as possible. Concern youself with the styles of as many different guitarrists (or other musicians) as you can find to enlarge your personal lick- and musiclibrary.

After you´ve done that, forget all of it again.

I have a parker fly, and i bet most of the people on this fourm play better than me. but im kind of opposite of that, i hardly know anyone eleses songs but can make melodys from scales.

im like that. I dont usually play other people's songs but play my own stuff by using scales but end up using pentatonic stuff a lot :(

i dunno, but everytime i say that you guys come up like "i dont play other peoples songs" and then you complain about having no ideas. as if it was a sin to try learning from others. noone told you to copy another guitarist and keep playing like him for all eternity. what are you afraid of?

I don't do covers, but I still try imitating guitarist's stlyes a lot when I'm practicing. That count?

Originally posted by iamthe_eggman
Theory is not meant to dominate us and dictate where we can take music; think of Mozart - he was a master over theory, and made it do whatever he wanted it to. Even with the limits he had imposed on him by the state of music in those days. Theory is just a tool, and we make use of it, then put it back in its little box and close the lid.

Who wants to listen to music to be awed by the music theory behind it? Music is meant to move on a much more basic level than that; granted, while still operating at higher levels.[/B]

Why wouldn't someone? Knowing what actually is happening in a paganini piece only improves one's own musical appreciation of that piece. Also the more you understand in a musical piece, the more ideas you get and the more your understanding of music increases. Imagine a song you know on guitar, and then when you hear that song. Your perception of the music is much greater than a song you don't know. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

The path you take is not as important as the willingness to learn. As long as you continue to learn and evolve, your playing will become better, whether it's through theory, doing your own thing, or learning from others.

Theory is important but it shouldn't govern music. Music is only achieved when a coherent progression of sound goes convincingly from beginning to end and the music is interesting. Theory is the understanding of the music written. If the musician is the builder of a song, the theorist is the divider of the song. Theory makes sense of music, thus by learning theory you have a better understanding of music. Classical theory is basically learning what has worked for the last thousand years. It's definitely worth a look at because the more you understand music, the better you are at creating it. Like everything else.

The problem with people creating original music is in the understanding of how something so simple can go to achieve the most complex and pleasant sounding music. A single pentatonic lick can go a very long way.

When it comes to one's own style? I believe your born with it. Your musical style is like your personality, so be yourself and you'll have your own style. People who don't seem to have there own style, usually don't trust themselves and they resort to mimicing others.

In the end, continuing to learn is what is important. One way is not really any better than another. If I was to say the most important thing in music is, it would be having a good ear. No theory, technique, playing like others, or level of your own creativity can replace your ear in music.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 02-05-2004 at 09:20 PM]

Originally posted by noticingthemistake
..A single pentatonic lick can go a very long way..

You mean like 3 decades :)