modes....

ok what makes minor / major modes:

c ionian : TTSTTT
d dorian : TSTTTS

So T = tone
S = semi tone

Dorian is considered a minor mode cus It has 4 T's whereas Ionian has 5 T's so its considered a major.

IS it something like the pattern for minor/major 3rd's intervals?

A major scale or mode has a major root chord , similarly a minor scale has a minor root chord.

And by the way , they both have the same number of T's and S's ... You just didn't finish the scale root to root !

You can only count if you do like this :
c ionian : TTSTTTS [C to c]
d dorian : TSTTTST [D to d]

ok so forget the T's & S's theory :big grin:

is there a specific way in which you decide whether its maj or min....

Originally posted by concrete chaos
is there a specific way in which you decide whether its maj or min....

Yes dude , it's the root chord ... In the C ionian , the root chord is Cmaj that's why it's a major mode , as for the D dorian, the root chord is Dmin so Dorians are minor modes, and so with the rest of the modes.

The exception is the locrian mode , since the root is a diminished chord ... I don't remember what do they call it, diminished mode I think.

:D [got it right now]

thanks alot

Hey don't forget spanish! the spanish scale is minor with a major root chord!
oh don't mean to confuse any body.

About that whole "T" "S" theory -
think of it as Whole/half....
C major
C D E F G A B C
W W H W W W H
see make sure that you include getting back to the root note... that way all scales in diatonic modes have the same number of Ts and Ss or whole steps and half steps..... its just the order the interval they start on that makes the scale

You can tell whether the mode is major or minor by the distance between the first, third, and fifth notes of the mode.

Major = 4 S between root and 3rd, 3 S between 3rd and 5th
Minor = 3 S between root and 3rd, 4 S between 3rd and 5th
Augmented = 4 S between root and 3rd, 4 S between 3rd and 5th
Diminished = 3 S between root and 3rd, 3 S between 3rd and 5th

Originally posted by TheDirt
the distance between the first, third, and fifth notes of the mode.

i.e. "ROOT CHORD" . ;)
I think it's easier for most people to comprehend this way.

All scales can be found by using a formula that begins with the major scales. You can also use this formula to figure out any chords that are unfamiliar or with any cross scales.
Most of these are basic ,but they help as good references.

Major= root of standard triad
minor = b 3rd and any 10th that may exist in the chording
example- G
sus= # 3rd
aug= # 5th
dim= b 3rd and b 5th
6= ## 5th
maj6= # 5th
m6= b 3rd and ## 5th
7= bb 8th
maj7= b 8th
m7= b 3rd and bb 8th
mmaj7= b 3rd and b 8th
9= adding a 2nd and a 7th to the chording
add9= ## 8th or bb 3rd it's still the same note ,but in
different octs.
there are a lot more rules that simplify the whole scale name thing ,but i can't type so fast.

------Use Beer not Drugs---------------

Originally posted by TheDirt
You can tell whether the mode is major or minor by the distance between the first, third, and fifth notes of the mode.

Major = 4 S between root and 3rd, 3 S between 3rd and 5th
Minor = 3 S between root and 3rd, 4 S between 3rd and 5th
Augmented = 4 S between root and 3rd, 4 S between 3rd and 5th
Diminished = 3 S between root and 3rd, 3 S between 3rd and 5th

This is really handy information. I more or less knew about major/minor, but for the augmented and diminished, I wasn't that sure.

Just for the hell of it, an augmented chord, to me, (based on your description) seems like a chord which is almost like a mix of a major and a minor chord. You know, it's got the 4 S between the root and the third (as a major chord), while it's got the 4 steps between the 3rd and the 5th (as a minor chord).

Then again, the diminished I'd view as a 'very minor' chord. As the distance between the root and 3rd is the same as in a minor chord, but the distance between the 3rd and 5th is 3 S....well, now I just remembed that the distance is the same between the 3rd and 5th of a major chord as well, but what the hell. The diminished is still quite a dark chord.

I know, strange reasoning, but don't you agree, at least on a few points?

An augmented chord has nothing to do with a minor chord. Yes, there is a major 3rd between the 3rd and 5th, but in the augmented chord that interval is being built off a major 3rd, not a minor 3rd like in the minor chord.

Aminor: A(R), C(3rd), E(5th)
A aug.: A(R), C#(3rd), E#/F (5th)

Try note to relate the sound qualities to each other, but to see (hear) them for what they are. A minor chord is not a major sound w/a flatted 3rd...this is not a good way to look at things. For instance, lets take colors for example, not many people look at Orange and see yellow and red, they take it for what it is, orange. Each sound quality is its own entity: Major, Minor, Dominant, Augmented, Diminished.

Yes yes. I see. I just had an unorthodox way of viewing it. I don't think that way usually.

Yeah. The actual chord names do a good job in describing there sound, so once you learn how each sounds; it's pretty to name them.

its realy pretty simple - basic chords consist of 3 notes stacked on top of eachother in third intervals - since there are 2 types of thirds (major and minor) this leads to 4 possible combinations:

major third, minor third -> Major Chord
minor third, major third -> Minor Chord
minor third, minor third -> Diminished Chord
major third, major third -> Augmented Chord

example:

C major consists of C, E and G -> C to E is a major third, E to G is a minor third

C minor consists of C, D# and G -> C to D# is a minor third, D# to G is a major third.

its as simple as that.

Ok, basic chords consist of thirds stacked on each other. There are two types of thirds, right. Which gives 4 possibillities, you said... I'm tempted to say it's six.

What if the intervals between the thirds are:

Major third, major third

Minor third, minor third

A major/minor third between both the root/third and the third/fifth. What are we dealing with then?

- EDIT: Sorry, Azrael. How stupid am I? I didn't notice that you actually included those as alternatives! It's diminished and augmented, I see now. Thank you. I've really got to open my eyes.

[Edited by jleraan on 02-20-2004 at 09:50 AM]