Good shredders/Bad shredders

Hey all....

This is not your typical 'Name your favorite guitarists' thread. Instead, this thread is to illustrate the difference between good shredders and bad shredders. Of course, it's completely subjective, but I want to see opinions on various guitarists. It will be interesting to see if there is a general consensus among people regarding good shredding and bad shredding.

I would like to point out that being a good shredder is more than just speed ability. It's not a black and white concept. Technical ability means being able to offer more than just blazingly fast alternate picking licks. Likewise, being a good shredder is not indicative of being a good song writer.

Please give brief reasons for your choices. I'll start off:

Good shredders:

-Shawn Lane - Extremely unorthodox approach, great phrasing. Also good song writing.

-Steve Vai - Good soloing, a tad bit over-rated, but good song-writing, and solid player overall.

-George Bellas- Great chops, good phrasing, and soulful style.

-Rusty Cooley - Good chops, poor song-writing qualities, but his soloing, phrasing, and interesting runs make up for his mediocre song-writing.

-Marcel Coenen- Good shredding, decent song-writing ability

-Eric Johnson -Often over-looked as a shredder, very interesting phrasing, good chops, and great tunes.

-Buckethead- A solid shredder, but moreover he's a very interesting composer and creative guitar-oriented ideas.

-Tony MacAlpine -A huge part of being a good shredder is innovation. Guitarists like Tony MacAlpine offer something new and refreshing to the scene. He's a great guitarist, somewhat unorthodox, and offers something more than your standard 2-sting, 4 note, repeated alternate picking lick.

Bad shredders:

-Francesco Fareri - This guy is blazing fast, but his soloing is so boring I lose interest after 30 seconds. He lacks phrasing or creativity and simply runs scales up and down the fretboard. He literally sounds like a machine, without any forethought about creating innovative solos or interesting licks. If you don't believe me, watch any of his video clips or listen to some of his mp3 clips. The mp3s are just plain bad.

-Michael Angelo - I know I'm going to take some flak for this, but despite his amazing technical ability, the guy gets really boring fast. A major complaint of mine regarding his playing is his phrasing. Yes, he has great chops, but every solo of his begins to sound the same. Just watch his instructional video, 'Speed Kills' and you'll begin to understand what I mean. He demonstrates solo after solo and there's not enough variance in his work. I'd say his phrasing stinks (almost non-existent) and he needs to seriously spend more time working on song composition. I can't really say anything about Nitro, as I've never heard them though. Bottom line: very very fast guitarist, but lame shredder.

Ok.... I agree with most of the people who you have said to be good shredders. I havnt heard all of them but i agree that the ones i have heard are good and make there music sound cool.

Francesco Fareri , i also agree with you here. He can play very fast and i do have to give him credit for that.
I head some of his songs. They were crap. The quality was so bad. Also i agree that his playing is quite primitive and just seems to be shredding up and down scales and doing a few arpegios that are really sloppy.

Another shredder that i have to give credit to is Danny joe carter. He has some super fast picking going on there(which looks like its speeded up hehe) but again his arpegios are really sloppy and he doesnt seem to know what he is doing. i cant really say too much about him because i havnt heard much of him

And yes... you did ask for it !
Michael angelo is a very good song writer IMO. I think his phrasing is good in some songs maybe not all of them and i can see what you mean when you talk about his songs sound the same. He is the fastest shredder i know who doesnt play stuff sloppy. Thats what is so great about him. He has melody and if you listen to some of his stuff other than no boundries you would know what i'm talking about. He can also make his music sound really good when he plays it slow and has also done some acoustic songs. I dont know how you can say he cant write good songs when he knows so much theory and even says he has a degree in music. I saw him on the dvd speed kills and i thought he was good. I then saw him live and was like :0
I'm sorry but i dont know how you can say he is a bad shredder.

my example of a good shredder would have to be joe satriani. His understanding of harmony and melody are incredibly difficult to top, according to me. Also, his incorporation of multiple cultures in his playing never stops amazing me. I think the main thing that distinguishs him is the way he can fuse styles and sounds and still sound amazing.
In all honesty, i don't think i've heard a bad shredder- but maybe thats just cuz im jealous of people who can play that fast...

Originally posted by joshldoherty
In all honesty, i don't think i've heard a bad shredder

Trust me there are bad shredders e.g Francesco Fareri.
Just have a listen. I wouldnt really class satch as a shredder but he has got style to his playing.

Satch isn't entirely shred guitar, but I would consider his solo on "Surfing with the Alien" a shred solo.

I dont think I would consider Eric Johnson a shreder by any means

don't get me wronge I think he's amazing and i'm sure if he wanted to he could shred like nuts

it seems like we're forgetting a little known swed by the name of Yngwie J. Malmsteen

I just got that album with him and the orchestra, absolutely brilliant

Although you DID put Rusty Cooley on your good shredders list, I think in the next few years he'll be even closer up to the top. I'm fairly sure he plays some fusion/jazz things, as well as just neoclassical and rock, I have a feeling with some of the guys he seems to like (Frank Gambale, Shawn Lane), that we should be hearing totally good things from him (Even better than his first album, which although it had a few songs...had a few great songs too.. Under The Influence, Dominion, The Butcher, etc).

However, if I made that list.. Steve Vai would be on the BAD shredders side. Why? He always plays the same thing! Of all the live records, bootlegs, and videos I've heard/seen of him, he plays nearly the exact same thing on all of his songs. Now, the guy doesn't hardly EVER screw up, and thats good. But if I played the same thing every night I don't think I would either. A good example of a shredder thats always pushing the limits (in my mind at least), is actually Joe Stump. Some may see him as a cheap Yngwie knockoff.. but having seen him live a few times I can assure you he most definitely not! He's always pushing himself beyond what I'm assuming he thought were his limits (As you can tell by the surprised look on his face during some solos). Some call it sloppy, but when you're pushing yourself like that I don't think you expect things to always turn out 100% right, but its always interesting to see how far he can push himself.

So I see guys like Steve Vai, Joe Satriani.. not really as shredders. Talented players, great songwriters, but not shredders.

As for Michael Angelo..either he's the greatest guitar player ever (I've never heard him miss a single note), or like I was mentioning above, he just never tries anything new.

To get an idea of what I mean about joe stump, check out the video on his website! http://www.joestump.com Its amazing to see how even a veteran player like him can improve so much over just a few years (listen to his first album, then his newest stuff).

I agree Eric Johnson is overlooked in hsi shredding abillity... luckily his guitar skills make up for his voice...

Good: Satch, Vai, Johnson, Pertucci, Malmsteen, Macalpine, Iommi, Rhoads, Darrel, Wylde, Michael Romeo, Vernon reid, lifeson.

Bad: Michael Angelo, Slash ( im sry dudes i just cant get in to him).

On this topic of shreders, i was wondering if you guys have heard of Jason Becker? he played in a band called cacophony with marty freidman. i think he is an amazing shreder not omly speed wise but melodically aswell also i love yngwie malmsteen because of the way he composes such brilliant songs

To my ears most shredders are the equivalent of those bebop sax players whose improvisation just sounds random and totally lacking in feeling. As for Vai, Malmsteen and Michael Angelo technically they're top flight but dont have the hooks and melodies Satch does.

Originally posted by alexmackinnon
On this topic of shreders, i was wondering if you guys have heard of Jason Becker?

Yeah, jason becker is really good. I havnt heard that much of his stuff. I have a few songs of his and a video of his. I think i would say he is a good shredder. Its really sad to see him in a wheel chair now and not being able play any more music. :(

I think EVERYONE has heard of Jason Becker..

No one has even mentioned Chris Impellitteri. He has some very fast, catchy songs like '17th Century Chicken Pickin' and 'Spanish Fire'. They may have some very simple parts but they still sound great.

As for Micheal Angelo, when I first heard him I thought 'he's the best' but after hearing other songs, which sound very similar, he doesn't seem that great anymore. I still enjoy listening to No Boundaries though.

I've only heard one of Rusty Cooley's songs, 'Under The Influence' and it was extremely fast but just sounded like one large excercise so haven't bothered to listen to any of his other stuff.

One thing I've been wondering, what is up with shred guitarists and huge hair? Not that I really care about looks and style but Joe Stump and Yngwie Malmsteen have huge '80's boof'. Chris Impellitteri, Rusty Cooley and Paul Gilbert (another great shredder not mentioned on this thread) have long, typical 80's metal hair. Shawn Lane has a huge untrimmed beard, like Howard Kaylan of Flo and Eddie and Mother of Inventions. But Michael Angelo tops them with a horrible mullet and I one of the funniest pics I've seen was him and the rest of Nitro with massive boofy hair that would have to be about half a metre in diameter.

http://www.metal-sludge.com/20QuestionsAngelo.htm

2nd pic down.

Yeah i agree his hair was insane back in the old days when i didnt know anything about good music. Its ok now. Its still long but i think it looks good. BTW, people who say angelo's songs are all the same and for the people who are into joe satriani, check out a song by michael angelo called "The Finish Line" you might like it ! I dont know where you can get it from but i know if you have kazza or something it should be on there.

On the subject of hairy shredders, do you think Satch looked cooler with hair, or without? I like the chrome dome look. As far as my list of good and bad shredders goes, here's my opinion.

Good: Vai, Satch, Johnson(although not necessarilly just for shredding), Petrucci, and Greg Koch

Bad: Yngwie Malmsteen, haven't heard many others (or many worse)

What did satch look like with hair ? I have never seen him with hair but i knew he used to have hair. Anyone got any good pics of him with hair ?

I think satch looks like a white,bald stevie wonder(or ray charles).He actually relys on melodies to carry the music.

Everyone forgot Tony Macalpine..a great shredder with a unique sound and some cool techniques(like slapping and popping)
If Eric Johnson kept his mouth shut,I would enjoy his music much more.
Vinnie Moore hasn't been mentioned yet...another good player.


I really don't dislike many shredders,but if I had to choose one it would be....Kirk Hammet...yeah..him.What a disgrace.

Oh man, I just checked out Joe Stump's website- I think I'm in love...either that or maybe i've just not been exposed to as much shred as the rest of you. Anyway, thanks to whoever posted that link on this thread.

And i like the bald satriani. i mean, he looks kind of, and im using this loosely, kind of like my dad.

No one forgot Macalpine except you apparently, he was in the first post of the tread :)

And really.. Satriani has only been bald for a few years! I think he did it for the first G3 tour.

Before that he had kind of poofy long hair (very much like Tony Macalpines hair, except of course Tony is black and Satriani isn't). I'm fairly sure he was going bald anyway, it didn't look too good.

And I'm pretty sure Michael Angelo wears a wig :P

On a related note....

Frank Gambale.

Turns out this guy has been bald since he was 20 or so. Apparently he just 'came out' and is admitting to it, he wore whigs for a long time I guess.