SOLOING HELP

ok, here where im at, i know all of my scales- penatonic down the whole fret board, major, minor, blues, and some of those random exotic scales. My fingers are fast enough, and my hammer ons and pull ofs are good, as are my bends.
But my solo sucks ( well thats in perspecitive, im better then most of the people i play with but nothing like Jimmi Page, Yngwie, etc etc). I know my problems too. First I play to linear, mostly off of muscel memory, i go up and down the scales well and fast with a couple variations, but im not good at mixing my notes. Umm its hard to explain but like, ya so i need to know how to mix up my notes in my scales to make them sound better and more creative. 2nd, i have almost no good soloing licks, this goes along with the 1st thing, but i can bend and hammer on and stuff, but my licks in soloing are very limited. But my main problem is muscel memory keeps me Linear in my soloing and it also makes me have troubles learning new songs and solos. Can any of you help??

What I do is I try out different combinations of notes slow, and then speed them up gradually. You could try practicing that way. The more you practice the better you get, and the more confidence in your soloing "skills" you have.

This is all part of the normal development.

Here's what I'd suggest:

1. slow down
2. hum, sing, or whistle (etc) what you want to play
3. attempt to mimic it on the guitar

other ideas:

1. work on melodic ideas up and down a single string
2. work on intervals like 4ths 6ths etc.
3. experiment with string skipping and other related soloing approaches.

http://kronosonic.com

to improve your solos..dont play a scale like it normally would be played such as the notes being played in 16th notes up and down..thats dull and boring..make you gutiar sound more like a voice or a saxaphone or somtihn and then incorporate those ideas of emotion into you scales that you know to give them somewat of a different sound
there my 2cents

a (ONE) good approach is to take some solo you like. learn it. but not ust learn it the way you would learn a solo. learn it untill it sounds EXACTLY (and i mean E X A C T L Y) like the original. try to understand what the dude who originally played it thought or felt. or simply try to understand what he did. practice this to perfection. once you got a specific solo, forget it again. go ahead to the next. do this with as many different styles as possible. do this not only wiht solo but also with rythm and such. listen closely to what the original does. DO NOT USE TAB SITES FOR THIS - FIGURE IT OUT WITH YOUR EAR. listen to thw whole song. try to understand why for example jeff beck played solo X over song Y and not over song Z. this way you will develop a feel for what a song needs. some songs dont need a solo at all, some do need just 2 or 3 notes every now and then.

its all about trying to understand and listen closely. dont get this one wrong - its not about copying.

[Edited by Azrael on 11-10-2003 at 05:26 AM]

I agree with Azrael. Take a solo, learn it, take another, learn it. Don't limit yourself to one artist though, or you'll sound like a want-to-be. If you can't figure it out, buy the professionally made tab for the album at the music shop. That'll get expensive after a while though. And listen. Listening is half the battle. Really listen to the solos in the tunes you like is what I mean. It'll put ideas in your head.

If you already know all this and you're still screwed, take some lessons. No shame in that.

[Edited by daveasdf on 11-10-2003 at 08:14 AM]

For example, I listen to a Windows Media Player radio channel called 4u rock(22k) under the classic rock section. A browser pops up with a list of what's currently playing and the past 10 tunes. I don't know who half of those guys are, like Yngwie J. Malmsteen, but the guitar playing is top notch. Then if I hear a tune I think I can learn from I download it.

Then I listen to straight classic rock. Soon I'll be a 60s, 70s, and 80s type guitar player. Then I'll bring back the groupie scene.

learning Yngwie by ear is way out of my league, but one thing that's helped me more than anything else is to think about like like you're singing. Concentrate on melody more than playing the notes inside of it. Even a completely ****ty 4-note solo that has its own life instead of just filling space is good. If you can't imagine someone singing something back to you you had better be playing it faster than a bat out of hell because otherwise it's not going to do anything for the song, and even then you gotta be careful.

Dude,

Lack of ideas, then use your imagination when practicing if you are relying on muscle memory. I do it all the time, even the best shredders do this with licks they like. My advice is learn all sorts of songs you like, through that you can deveolpe some interesting variants on what others have done. Either that or learn from some of the runs or ideas they use and build on them in your own works. ALl muscians build off their influences to some degree or another in learning to play you must learn from an agreeable source, play some song you've always wnated to learn.

Malmsteen you could theoretically do by ear if you just memorize the 20 or so licks he uses. Some sweeped arpeggios here, some fast symetrical scale runs here. Not entirely the hardest stuff, but fast.

Learn some Jeff Beck, Jason Becker, Mart Freidman, AL DiMiola...etc....just soemthing to expand your lick arsenal. Otherwise while practicing just get and idea within a scale or whatever and practice it till you have it the way you want it. Don't lmit yourself by saying "I can't play that....or that's too hard..." Because it might seem difficult right now, but it gets easier the more you practice it. As you should know having mastered all sorts of scales and the speed necessary to keep up with a dude like yngwie.

The main reason I'm not going to take a crack at learning yngwie is I don't own any of his music so I only hear it streaming, which means no pause and rewind, and that's a hell of a lot of notes to tab by memory. And I have the memory of a goldfish, it's one of the negative side effects of working at a coffee shop.

ehehehhehhhe, good reason not to try. The tabs are out there though, though I must say trying to learn a song from a streaming file would be like learning a song by ear the hardest way. you keep having to listen to it over and over and over and over, and you can't do anything about it so eventually you would probably just get it and the music or just soloing would click and you would be able to recreate it licky-split. Who knows, that would be a pretty insane exercise to master.

Good for your ear anyhow.

...

Learning a solo by ear. A good thing to do but you should at least have some background before trying to learn a malmsteen solo by ear. Solo's are alittle more advanced and unless your ready for it, you'll just stress yourself out. Try figuring out small melodies (TV show theme songs are a good start), chord progressions first. You should have a nice grip on that before trying to scribe a solo. Chord progressions will actually help with learning the solo and why the solo sounds good. If you know the chord the solo is being played on, it's easier to figure out what notes and scales are being used. Also knowing the solo and the chord progression and how they work together will give you a better understanding on how to solo.

A good thing to do is think up a simple melody first. Then do variations of that melody, add fills, runs up and down to that melody, or any little trick you see your fav guitarist using. The techniques will fill in the gaps here. Take a sequence like a tapping one, and do it up and down the neck with only slight variations as an example. Also depending on how long the solo is you may need to think up more than one melody: The longer it is the more melodies and hooks you need. But for each phrase, a good start is to think melodically first. Melodies are what catch the listeners ear.

Learn solos on other instruments as well. Sax, violin, piano, anything you can get you hands on.

So this thread is ery interesting for me because I´ve got the same problems as the thread starter, but my question is:
Is it really necassary to know any of these scales to write good solos? Because theoretically it must be possible the other way round too.

Some players do different things, so I guess the only thing I can say across the board is a good knowledge of theory helps way more than some people would imagine.

Hey, I would reccomend that whenever you are watching tv, playing on the computer, etc. to just have your guitar in your hands and eventually you will play stuff without even noticing. Once you have succeeded this, then perfect your soloing. Start slow, then work your way up to a higher tempo.

Hey, that's what I do. I always have a guitar on me when I'm on the computer, except when I'm doing a research paper.

First off take things slow don't worry about speed till you have things down.Allot of people start trying to wail befor they can make it sing.Don't worry about impressing anyone and don't try to stick licks in that don't fit the song style,speed etc..And allways stop and critic.....does this really sound like it fits??
If ou here a guitar player you like jam allong with his tapes and try to emulate him using what you know,listen to how they mix there notes.If there a few amsome licks pick them out slowly or have a freind figure them for you if you can't.Once you learn a Hot lick try to butcher it up into several of your own licks with the same feel.
And if you haven't so far ork on your vibrato especially on your stretchs(this is SOB for the first few months but is one of the defining lines of what makes a good player)try to have a smooth sustainy vibrato,without sounding jiggly.
Watch local bands especially the ones with players that are talked about by other players.Ask them questions and watch there fingers and get ideas.
My last advice is practice sober.I have a freind who lied to practice ripped and in 4yrs of playing never got good enough to complete a song till he stoped doing that now you can hear improvements.In the starting stages and developing stages(usually a lifetime for most)you want your clearest thinking so you remember every detail you need to remember.
Practice makes perfect.

Another thing is hot licks tapes can teach you stuff too.Also in the beginning start off with simple solos to get a feel of things trying to learn fast ripin stuff at first can get reall hard if you haven't got the basics.
As far as scales I find that most rock solos especially from the bluesy players like Page,Clapton,Gilmour etc.. that you can play out of the box scales.Mainly I play outta the Major and minor pentatonics and add in half steps(notes within and serounding the pntatonic box).All your minor notes,minor 3rds and flat 5ths(both blues intervals)are just half steps in the box.Finding were these half steps works though is purly through expieramentation(unless you know your theory).Really unless you know theory it gets hard to use the other scales like the modes system.
I'm not a theory player I've read enough books in my days to understand the modal systems but by that time was so used to my methods that I stuck with them.Hey it worked for Michael Schenker though.
Also I once had a book call the complete guitarist it was written or Co-written by Les Paul.This gave me good insite on scales and steps.You'll ind that the box scales are actually just one section o the modal scales once you see them layed out in a book.
Good Luck

[Edited by Guitar-Sam on 12-08-2003 at 03:41 AM]