modes and naming them

Hi all,

i would guess that this gets asked a lot but i cant seem to get a clear answer.. Im just starting to explore modes - seems like a good plan from what a lot of people have told me. Anyway ive gone and got all confused.

If im in the key of B, and i want to use the 2nd degree mode of the B scale - eg dorian, is it called B dorian, or would it be named as C# dorian? im guessing the later.. it kinda makes sense that way but i always thought it worked the other way! any help would be grand..

second thing.. are there any basic guidelines that i missed somewhere long the line about which modes work well over the various chords within the key? Or is it better to, for example, stick within one mode (eg if in the key of B minor go for the b minor scale / mode - whatever that would be named as "arrgh!" -and just vary the note you start on as the chords change underneath, eg Bm D G A

any ideas for modes to use with each of these chords would be great and why you would use them... I know its asking a lot but im just going round in circles with this one.

Cheers all! Much appreciated..

It would be called C# Dorian. Think about it, if it was called B Dorian it wouldn't be any different to B major so why would it be called Dorian?

sorry, i thought that a mode was the same scale starting on a different note within that scale - eg the modes of B major would start on B, C# D# E F# etc therefore in my lirttle world it kinda made some sense that you could name the mode that way - according to the scale from which the notes of the mode are taken from and the degree of that scale.

but thanks for putting me right - very apprecited.

cheers,

~T~

Tweak is right. A mode is starting on a different note in a scale. Evo is right too it would be C# dorian, the second modes in B major scale. i.e. B major, C# dorian, D# phrygian, etc. B dorian and B major are not the same scale though.
The second question, in rock you use one scale over the entire chord progression, in jazz style you use different scales over each chord. This is due to the way chord progression in each style. In jazz the chord modulate through sometimes several different keys so one key would not work over the entire chord progression. In rock however the chord progression for a passage tends to stay in the same key so you can use one scale over the chord progression. You may need to understand more theory to get what I mean but it should answer your basic question.

Just so you can compare the difference this is B major and it's modes:

B - Major/Ionian
C# - Dorian
D# - Phrygian
E - Lydian
F# - Mixolydian
G# - Aeolian/Natural Minor (Relative Minor)
A# - Locrian

This is B Dorian:

B - C# - D - E - F# - G# - A

B Dorian contains the same notes as A Major:

A - B - C# - D - E - F# - G#

There are two easy ways to find out what notes the equivalent Dorian scale would contain and these are:

1) Use the forumula that you can work out from above:

B Major = B - C# - D# - E - F# - G# - A#
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7

B Dorian = B - C# - D - E - F# - G# - A
1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - b7

This means all you have to do to get the Dorian mode is flatten the 3rd and 7th of the major scale of the same root.

2) Another way is just to look at the 2nd box pattern of the major scale, start it on the root note of your choice and just workout what the notes are. I'm presuming you know the 7 box shapes of the major scale?

[Edited by Evo on 10-16-2003 at 10:17 AM]

7 box shapes for major scales? i guess its a 'no' to that - i know like two different ways to play a major scale - oh and a third way with the root note on the 5th string but thats all. It sounds like something that would be majorly useful and important (understatement) - aany ideas where i could find some examples or diagrams of these 7 boxes?

Many thanks -

~T~

I suppose you could look them up. BUT, its best just to do them yourself I think. A little extra work will help you remember them better. Also, one thing I suggest, learn two shapes at a time if you can. That way you can start on 4 note per string, as well as the standard 3 per string licks.

good point - ill go and get my head down and see how many i can figure out.

You can see them on http://www.cyberfret.com there's also lots of other cool stuff there. If you work them out yourself you may not come up with the most efficient shape.