Scales and the Ultimate Scale Finder Tool in the Toolbox


paulcavaliere
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Joined: 11/05/20
Posts: 141
paulcavaliere
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Joined: 11/05/20
Posts: 141
01/05/2025 6:37 pm

Is there a universal naming convention for scales?  E.g. For the G Major Scale, the Scale Finder Tool has Pattern 1 as the open position scale, between Open and 3rd Fret.  However, others name this position, position 5.  


# 1
ChristopherSchlegel
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Joined: 08/09/05
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ChristopherSchlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 8,534
01/06/2025 3:43 am
#1 Originally Posted by: paulcavaliere

Is there a universal naming convention for scales?  E.g. For the G Major Scale, the Scale Finder Tool has Pattern 1 as the open position scale, between Open and 3rd Fret.  However, others name this position, position 5.  

Short answer: no.


Longer answer: it depends on the context.  In teaching the typical way to present a scale (especially at a beginner level) is to start on the root note & then play all the intervals up to the next octave (and then the next higher octave for more advanced levels).  I've tried to clarify it by using the terms "root note in low, middle or high position" in this tutorial.


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=453


Any given scale is identified by two pieces of info: its root note and its scale formula.  We start with it's root note, anywhere you can find it on any given instrument.  So that's how they are typically taught.


However, the Scale Finder is simply a reference tool. It always regards "Pattern 1" as whatever pattern that places the root note on the low E string & played by the pinky, regardless of any other factor. Then, it covers all the strings & frets with notes from that scale in that position. Likewise for the other patterns: the goal is simply to cover the fretboard with the scale pattern.  The result is that on any given pattern or position the root note probably isn't even the lowest note or highest shown.


The larger problem here is that the guitar is relatively unique among musical instruments because you can play the same note in more than one place. This results in a many possible patterns to play the same scale and great deal of potential confusion about scale patterns.  Especially compared to the piano, for example, in which any given scale looks exactly the same no matter where you play it on the keyboard.


I hope helps to clarify the issue & makes sense in a way that helps you understand. Please ask more if necessary & best of success with scales!


 


Christopher Schlegel
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# 2
paulcavaliere
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paulcavaliere
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Joined: 11/05/20
Posts: 141
01/22/2025 4:35 pm

Thanks for the explanation.


Follow up question. 



  1. If I'm practicing the A minor scale and start on the 5th fret of the low E string (A note) and I'm calling out intervals.  Should I call out 1 as the first note or 6 (relative to C major)?

  2. If I start with 1 and I get to the flat 3rd.  Why is it considered the flat 3rd, when the note is C and not C flat? 


Thanks in advance, Paul.


# 3
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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Posts: 8,534
01/23/2025 11:33 am
#3 Originally Posted by: paulcavaliere

Thanks for the explanation.


Follow up question. 



  1. If I'm practicing the A minor scale and start on the 5th fret of the low E string (A note) and I'm calling out intervals.  Should I call out 1 as the first note or 6 (relative to C major)?

  2. If I start with 1 and I get to the flat 3rd.  Why is it considered the flat 3rd, when the note is C and not C flat? 


Thanks in advance, Paul.

You're welcome.


If you're practicing the A minor scale, then A is 1 (C is 3 in this case).  Whatever scale you are practicing the root note is always 1.  It's important to think in terms of interval distance from the root note because that's what gives a scale its distinctive sound.


I think you might be conflating scale intervals & the musical alphabet, but they are two separate entities.  They are both absolute & do not alter each other.  The notes (A-G#) are where they are regardless of any scale.  We simply use them as a static pattern to call out the notes when we land on them when applying any scale pattern.


The distance from the 1 (root note) of any minor scale to the minor 3rd of the scale is always 3 frets (or one and a half steps).  Then wherever it happens to land on the musical alphabet, that's what note name it is.  A to C is 3 frets, so an interval distance of a minor 3rd. It's just a matter of systemic coincidence that the A minor scale is the only one with no sharps or flats.


Let's say we're playing the G minor scale.  


G (1) ws A (2) hs Bb (3) ws C (4) ws D (5) hs Eb (6) ws F (7) ws (G (1)


In this case we start on G and if we go up 3 frets to the minor 3rd we land on Bb.  So in this case we find that the minor 3rd of the scale does happen to land on a flat note.  But we don't make the B a flatted note because of the scale.  The notes B and Bb are where they are regardless of any scale.  And that's just where we land if apply the scale intervals.


I cover moveable scale patterns in these tutorials.


Major Scale Patterns https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/453/


Minor Scale Patterns https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/887/


Hope that helps!


Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

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# 4

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