Maj / Minor Vamp?

I heard of this trick the Beatles once used to use but i cant remember what it was!!
But then i realised by listening to the radio that a large number of songs, particluarly using piano, begin in a majory sound then the first chord of the verse and lyrics in a minor chord, is there a name for this? Is there a common note in the scale of the songs key of which the its commonly used in this manor? Is this the Maj / Minor Vamp trick?

Please remind me again what notes a major and minor etc in a scale?

Later

I'll give 2 possibilities.

One is the relative minor and major of each key. You know how a key like G major also has the same notes as E minor. The thing is they probably started the song with either G major or Ddom7, then when they got to the verse they maybe played either E minor or B minor.

The second one is the song may have been written in the Harmonic minor scale. Which the 5th chord in that scale is a dominant 7th chord (which is major sounding by the way, alittle mix of minor but dominantly major). Take the E harmonic minor chords.

Eminor / F#dim / G+ / Amajor/ Bdom7 / Cmajor / Ddim.

So if the song was in E harmonic minor (i dunno if it was but the rule applies regularless of the root), they may have started the sound with the Bdom7 (B7) chord and then started the verse with the root E minor chord.

Hope that helps. Latr

Hmmm, Tesla's intro to "Love Song" is in D Major, and the first verse starts in E Minor. noticingthemistake was talking about relative major/minor... E Minor is G Major's relative and D Major is G Major's dominant. So, basically, they modulated from D Major to G Major (which is smooth since they're so close in the circle of 5ths) and started on it's relative minor.

The Beatles would often write a verse in major and then a chorus in minor with the same tonic (Fool On The Hill, Michelle, etc...)
They would also use the picardy 3rd trick by playing the major 4 chord and then following it w/a minor 4 chord ( C C-). I believe you can find an example of that in the song In My Life.
There really is a lot to be learned about songwriting from studying the works of the Beatles.

Any progression of chords moving in Maj or min 3rds, 5ths, 4ths, Maj or min 6ths, b5, or chromatic can have literally, any quality. Resolution of a progression is paramount to make sense. Improvising over such progression can be complex. Most Beatle tunes are of the standard variety of progressions (primarily based on vocals, quick and simple vocals, and great hooks.)
A vamp is a short progression, e.g. ii V7 I, repeated.

[Edited by griphon2 on 04-22-2003 at 02:22 PM]

no more Coltrane for you Griphon!

I never understand Griphon's posts. :confused: Just the first line and the last line was all I got.

To add to what chris said about Changing keys with the same tonic. Like C major to C minor. The 4th chord is a nice place to change the progression, also the 5th chord is another option. I like it more cause the 5th chord is more leanant in it's quality of either being major or minor. Making this type of modulation more smoother. The harmonic minor scales allows this. Whether not you write the song from beginning in the Harmonic minor scale or not, it's not uncommon to borrow the "v" chord to make the progression from major to minor more smooth. Or vice-versa. They can even follow each other in sequence and still be powerful without being stagnant. Take the chord progression, Cm7 - Gm7 - G7 - Cmaj7. The key is that it keeps the progression moving, and the harmonic sense is very pleasant sounding. If you noticed it also gives a sense of ascending from a minor sound to a major sound, and descending if you were to do it in reverse.

Coltrane's great cycle of 3rds. Probably the most difficult tune to play on a dime, especially fast. Stick to Beatles and early Rolling Stones. Pretty slick.

Major 3rds yet!!

What I was reffering to w/the 4 chord was the Picardy 3rd principle of classical music, where the 4 chord would go from major to minor and then resolve to the major 1.So basically there is no modulation occurring. This, if I remember correctly is the vers progression to In My Life by the Beatles'
//G D/E- /C C-/G //
I'll try to post some other Beatles progressions later, they really did come up w/some nice stuff.

So in this chord progression, both the G chord in the beginning and the G chord at the end are major chords?? I dunno, I thought you were talking about modulating from G major to G minor. I thought the whole thread was about that, but anyways. Yeah that is a nice progression.

Yes, the G chord remains Major.
This technique involves the Picardy 3rd, a technique were the 4 chord goes from major to minor then resolves back to the 1, it's a great sound. It was traditionally used for final cadances only.
I understood this thread to be about using major and minor techniques, which would include, but not limited to, modulation. Here's another Beatles goody.
Michelle
A section
/F /Bb-7 /Eb7 /Do7 Fo7 Abo7 Fo7/C7 Do7 Fo7/C7 //
B section
/Fmin / /Eb- Ab7 /Db /C C7 /Fmin //

The intro vamp is based off a F- chord with a chromatic descending melody line (F to Db) that resolves to the 5 chord (C7)

Originally posted by chris mood
It was traditionally used for final cadances only.

Yep. "A-men" to the ol' IV-I...LOL

Here's one that modulates from relative minor to relative major.
GIRL
verse
/C- Do7 /Eb F- C-/F- C-Bb7/Eb G7 //
chorus
/Eb C- /F- Bb7 //
Bridge (key change)
F- /C7 /F- /C7 /F- /Ab //(to chorus)

o.k., 1 more for all you Beatles fans out there -LOL-
Here's the progression to Fool On the Hill, this goes from Major to parallel minor, I always liked this one cause the chorus gets really dark sounding and the meter change is pretty cool.
verse
3/4/D../.../G../.../D../B-.A/G../E-.A/G.D/A../D../B-.A/G.D/A..//
chorus
4/4D-.G-./D-.../G-.../G-.../A-.../G-.../D-.../D...//

Actually, and simply, a Picardy is the ending with a major chord of a tune or section in minor which would normally end in a minor. Picardy's are cadential. Was called a surprise, way back. One can take the idea further, or is it farther, in modern music.
IV I is called a Plagal cadence. (a memorization tool, is Amen)
Keep the Beatles coming! It's a great source to learn anaylization of harmony. Great writers, (Beatles) like many others.

Take the two Beatle tunes, Girl and Fool, change the quality of each chord to it's opposite. This will, hopefully, help in understanding my previous post.
Giant Steps is neat. So is Charlie Parker, still.

Originally posted by griphon2
IV I is called a Plagal cadence. (a memorization tool, is Amen)

Good to see someone knows what I was talking about. :)

Here's a goody, this progression modulates from Major to relative minor and then ends on a Dominate chord of the two as a turnaround. This chord progression was the A section of autumn leaves, the basis for Santanas Europa, and I believe Grover Washington Jrs. hit Mr Magic (could be wrong about that last one, it's been along time since I jammed that one but I remember it being similiar).

/Fmin7.../Bb7.../Ebmaj7.../Abmaj7.../D-7b5.../G7#5.../
Cmin7.../C7...//

This chord progression works great as a jazz standard, a funk progression, or a ballad.