my first band!

How's everybody doing? a few weeks ago i started jamming with 5 other musicians, and now we have ourselves a band. The positions are

Lead guitar= me
rhythm guitar
drums
african drums/vocals
bass
keys

We're a high school band, everybody is in 11th grade, but i'm in 9th grade. Everything works out great, but sometimes i feel that I could do more if it was a simple 4 piece band, like this-

Drums
Bass
Guitar
Keys

we are heavily improvisational, some jazz, some blues, some reggae, alot of grateful dead, lot of phish, some originals, etc.

Has anyone played in both a smaller 3 or 4 piece band, and also played in a larger band like the one i was talking about?

I got the idea when I watched the Phish DVD. They could switch tempos and change keys and songs pretty fast, compared to the 1991 Grateful Dead DVD, which had 7 musicians on it. It also seemed to have that airy feel, where you could probably play just about anything and it would sound pretty good.

Everyone in the band is very talented though, our drummer also plays mandolin, our african drummer also plays fiddle, etc (we have three different little bands. bluegrass, acoustic, electric, all with same members).

Right now i'm kind of in a nasty situation, but the resolution might be to get a smaller band also, and play in this one, since the talent level is so high. thoughts?

Play together long enough, and you will practically breathe in time with each other.

The ultimate flexibility is a three-piece band. The downside is that such a small outfit has a lot of holes in it's sound, which usually leads to a lot of sorry-ass lead guitar wanking.

I'd say you've hit on a wonderful combination, first time out! Multi-talented pllayers who cover a wide range of sounds. Once you get past the urge for everybody to play all the time (that means you too), you (as a band), can do just about anything.

Originally posted by Incidents Happen
...african drums/vocals...

African vocals?:)

...Everything works out great, but sometimes i feel that I could do more if it was a simple 4 piece band, like this-

Drums
Bass
Guitar
Keys...

Me I'd say to just have fun and go with it.It should sort itself out in due course.
With an outfit of six multitalented(presumed or otherwise:D) guys,you could probably carry off a whole different styles,like different combinations of you doing different stuff,altho' trouble might be everyone(at least at first) wanting to be in everything and all that(yes Lord,I did read your post).But it should work out.
Have fun.

Nothing to say you have to be in just one band ! Id give the big one a really good chance before blowing it out, and if you do start up a smaller band, be careful not to alienate band members ! I’ve been in 3 and 5 piece bands both are a lot of fun !

Best of luck dude !

I've got a 5 peice with my friends, and I'm also in a 24 peice. The 24 guys are easier to manage than the other 5, heh heh.
Seriously, flexibility depends on how good the members of the band get a long, not how many there are. Plus, they all need to be versatile enough to adapt to another person's ideas or songs.
And African drums? Whats that, like an african talking drum or something?

Approach each musical venture as an educational experience. Playing w/2 other rhythm/chordal players will force you too learn various ways of playing common chords. 3 guys all playing the same same chord voicings in the same register will sound like mud. In a big ensemble it is important to find your place and help the overall band achieve a good sound. With a smaller ensemble the emphasis is on filling space, so each player must overstep his boundaries to achieve a full sound.
I always enjoy having another lead instrument in the band, that way I feel I'm not overkilling myself or the audience w/my solo's. Plus having another lead instrument will give you someone to feed off of. My current band line-up is: 1)singer/ rhythm guitar (acoustic) 2) lead guitar (I've been playing some nylon str. guitar w/the band too for some added color) 3) Sax (nothing like a good killer tenor player to give you a run for your money, plus sax and guitar sound good overlapped) 4)bass 5) drums. When we have some good paying gigs we bring in a percussion player too.

what i meant by african drums/vocals, is that he plays ethnic drum style things, like he has bongos and congas, and a whole wide range of ethnic drum instruments. This adds some variety in the drumming, and he does some vocals too when there isn't a need for african drumming. I sing as well.

like i said, everyone is really talented in the band, but they look to me for the leads and as to when to end or start a song, and right now we are working on stretching as many songs as we can, without losing any credibility in the sound (total improv). My rhythm guitarist is incredible, he has perfect pitch, totally cool. I wouldn't replace him for the world.

Im trying to start my first band also. but all of us in the band have a lot of learning to do . Im trying to start a 5 piece
courus guitar, lead guitar , drummer, bass, and singer
Ill be playing lead or courus guitar. the singer's a girl and were looking to play heavy metal. my brother the drummer likes metal but wants to play punk or should i say Pop/punk
no offense to you that like punk. oh for the person that posted the first thread, I think the 2 different drums and singers would add to its uniqueness

I'm currently in a band where the setup is similar to that of Rush's. That is, I play guitar, our bass player also sings, and our drummer wishes he had a kit as big as Neil Peart's. I honestly think that what type of band you play in is a reflection of what your style is like. I personally try to squeeze as much melody into my chording as I can in the form of suspensions, adds, etc etc. The effect is that I fill in the aforementioned "holes" left by a lack of another guitarist. However, my tradeoff is that it sounds really empty when I go for a solo, so we work our songs around that. I've also had a stint with a large 20 some piece jazz band, and although I didn't really fit into that playing niche as well as I fit into the whole metal style, it was still a positive experience.

With regards to your situation, Incidents, I'd say that you shouldn't be afraid to keep jamming with your current band. However, as your post suggested, don't pigeonhole yourself either: if you find a small trio or quartet you can jam in, take it up as something on the side. See which one you really prefer. Additionally, I'd say that you should analyze yourself as a player: Do you really need to play in a large band to have fun playing? Obviously, the next question would be to ask if you feel that a smaller band would make it any better?

With regards to the talent level: Remember that ultimately you are playing for you. Bands that work only do so because all the people get along together. I used to play with a bassist/guitarist who's now on his merry way to some music college with a free ride. Phenomenal player. Too bad he was a jerk. Anyway, my point is that: 1.) You shouldn't be afraid to experiment with different playing situations. 2.) You should have fun while playing. 3.) You should also be playing for you. If you're stuck with virtuosos, but the setup doesn't work for you, my best advice is to get out of there.

Hope my advice helped (especially considering this is my first post)

However, I think the opposite situation is also wrong -- playing in a band just because you are very good friend with the other members. I was stuck in this kind of situation for 3years, and the results are that I basically wasted my time. In this band no one really would bother practicing at home except for me, and in cases when we could not practice for 2 or more weeks due to school, exams the band just did not progress. One day I just said:"Look, guys, I'm leaving, It's obvious that my vision and your vision of the band are totally different". I only regret the fact that it took me THREE DAMN YEARS to realize that.

My band is pretty flexible. We always have me on guitar, one of my friends on bass, and my best bud on drums. This is the core of the band. We play all over the place and we constantly change singers and extra guitar players depending on where we're playing or what songs we're doing, but the core stays constant. I do little soloing unless we have an extra guitarist playing rhythm or on a couple of songs with a really driving bass line.

The result: our close knit band is like the house band at a couple places and we invite others to join us, if just to play or sing that one song they know. Even on songs we've never played before, the three of us keep up with each other. We can feel where the song is going.

Originally posted by Slow Diver
However, I think the opposite situation is also wrong -- playing in a band just because you are very good friend with the other members. I was stuck in this kind of situation for 3years, and the results are that I basically wasted my time.

I hear you on that one...thankfully I wasn't stuck for three years, but the worst part is when good friends fall out with each other over band stuff.

My current band is a 4-piece:

Singer (who plays some guitar on odd tracks)
Lead/rhythm (Me)
Bass
Drums

Getting the levels right does take time, and none of us are completely happy yet, but what takes even longer (from the main guitarist's point of view) is getting the guitars to have a tone when playing with the band. It's all very well getting that great sound when playing in your bedroom with the volume no higher than your stereo, but its different when blending with blending your sound with other sounds, and at a different volume level. Remember a good tone can be part of the uniqueness of both a guitarist and band. Incidents, I seem to remember you have some rather good gear....push it to its limits and get that sound :cool:

If you're stuck with virtuosos don't be too quick to abandon them....whenever I work with people of a higher ability than me I make sure I pick their brains and learn some stuff from them.

Above all else, have fun with it.

I suppose I sort of put my foot in my mouth on that last post, my point was that you shouldn't be in a band that you're dissatisfied with on a personal level. You can't go out there and play when you want to tear the bassist's head off or vice versa. However, it is valid that you should try and pick the virtuoso's brains for whatever you can get.

I guess it boils down to these main components:

1.) The people have to share your vision
2.) You can't have animosity within the band
3.) You also should be on the same sort of musical ground in terms of technique.

This last one doesn't matter so much as long as the band holds itself together, because generally the ideal setup would be that the band has patience for anyone who's lacking a bit in technique. This is where it's important to be on at least speaking terms with your band members, because the more animosity there is, the more disputes there will be over style and technique. This is all just from my experience though, I could be wrong.

Hope I removed the foot from my mouth and offered some real help.

the problem with this is that we don't jam enough. I want to jam 4-5 times a week, but they all have jobs, and its hard to get everybody together. I've decided not to really confront any of the members of the band about this, just to form my own band with members of my choosing, and jam with the other one whenever i feel like it.

"What???" - Well, see, I don't really run the band I'm in now. I more so joined it, but the one i'm going to form is going to have 1 drummer, 1 bass, one guitar (me), and one key player. I'm going to give this a shot, and i think it will work out better.

the tone i get with my Gibson Les Paul -> Line 6 Pod XT-> Q Tron + -> Jim Dunlop Wah-> Fender Deluxe Reverb is awesome, and in about a month or so I will be having synth sounds via my Pod XT (downloading midi sounds from my keyboard to comp to pod xt).

I'm going to try the 4 piece, and I think i will like it very much. Thanks for the advice.

you don't work at Barnes & Noble anymore?