Frozen Vienna sausage fingers


john of MT
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john of MT
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04/10/2022 5:38 pm

Maybe it's just me on a pleasant western Montana Sunday morning but I found this essay pleasing. And reassuring for those with fret hand 'issues.'

Five-thumbed and Fretful - Relearning to Play the Guitar: Infidelity!l-relearning-to-play-the-guitar-Infidelity


"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
# 1
manXcat
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manXcat
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04/11/2022 8:45 am

Not just you.

I particularly liked his value:price ratio amortisation at the end. I agree. For those of us who love playing, price per hour of pleasure delivered playing guitar as the years go by has to be one of the best value pursuits/hobbies one can indulge in. Most satifying as well. Endless challenge. Same applies to online tuition. I fail to fathom the mentality of others I speak with who fail to appreciate the value of quality tuition and refuse to pay for it.


# 2
john of MT
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john of MT
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04/11/2022 2:26 pm

Yeah I liked his cost basis consideration, too. I briefly wondered about my own...

As my Brit BIL says, "Good value for money, that."


"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
# 3
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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04/12/2022 12:24 pm

And people often feel like they are failing at guitar when it can be that the guitar they're using is failing them.

I never liked the feel of a Gibson Les Paul Custom. As many guitarist play them, I find them oddly uncomfortable. Like Ozzy guitarist's brand Wylde Guitars, they're based more on the Custom vibe, I do not like playing those guitars. If either of those had been my first guitar (my first guitar was a Gibson Les Paul so anything could have happened...well, not the Wylde guitar in 1981...), I might not have continued. My Les Paul in 1981 was perfect for me.

When I read this article, that's the overall lesson I get; that it's important to find something that fits you. Not all guitars will.

I got my Gibson Les Paul Traditional a few uers back as when I played it, it felt almost exactly like my first LP. Even now when I pick that one up, I enjoy it just that tiny bit more than my others...And I loved playing all my guitars.

Like a marriage, find the right one and keep her!


# 4
manXcat
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manXcat
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04/12/2022 7:54 pm
Originally Posted by: JeffS65

When I read this article, that's the overall lesson I get; that it's important to find something that fits you. Not all guitars will.

Concur 100%. Fit is paramount, yet in my observation a majority will still ignore it over buying on headstock label/brand and looks driven by ***, which of course sales droids will happily exploit in that moment of in-store buyer excitment as it means a immediate sale and at higher margins generally.[br][br]Probably based upon my intitial experience with guitar of nearly 50 years ago, "fit is all important" was identified upon my return to the fold almost 4½ years ago now as prerequisite, so is tantamount to a mantra to me. But I'm long past preaching it at anyone else until they have developed sufficient self-awareness to realise something is not quite right, enquire, and be receptive to the answer with sufficient cognitive intelligence to comprehend it.


# 5
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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04/15/2022 7:14 pm
Originally Posted by: manXcat

Concur 100%. Fit is paramount, yet in my observation a majority will still ignore it over buying on headstock label/brand and looks driven by ***, which of course sales droids will happily exploit in that moment of in-store buyer excitment as it means a immediate sale and at higher margins generally.

I know we've chatted (and agreed) that all the value is in the ability to enjoy and play. I still love how my Gretsch Electromatic Jet plays and I got that one on sale for $150 off! It was $650 and I got it for $500. Then again, I played a few of them before buying and realized there is much I like about them. I am going to swap out pickups to TV Jones for a 'more Gretsch' sound but since I've saved $150 when I bought it, I 'payed' for at least one pickup.

Anyway, I digress...Being in the moment can lead to snap judgements and you come home with something you're not really sure you like. By knowing I liked Gretsch and also doing this thing where I pine long enough for something, it ends up on sale, I got a good value that I love to play.

If you're lifelong goal is to own a Gibson Les Paul Stnadard, save and get what you want. If you want to play guitar and the bank tells you that you don't have a Les Paul budget, there are a ton of great options.

Like that Yamaha Revstar. Mighty fine guitar there...I'm sure you concur manX :)


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DraconusJLM
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04/16/2022 10:21 am

I've only played one guitar in the past that didn't fit: a Martin acoustic (not mine and I have no idea what model but I know it comes fitted with an "aura" unit as standard); the spacing between the strings felt too wide.

Any electric guitars feel fine but not always the strings. I particularly dislike flat wound strings but that's a purely personal preference ( I've met lots of players who swear by them).

As for LPs, I've never owned one but I'd quite like to try a Studio model, because they're lighter, to see how it feels and sounds, then add one to the collection.


I wish this forum had a "block user" feature. Possibly I'm not the only one......

# 7
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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04/19/2022 5:43 pm
Originally Posted by: DraconusJLM

As for LPs, I've never owned one but I'd quite like to try a Studio model, because they're lighter, to see how it feels and sounds, then add one to the collection.

One of the better videos on the subject was last month from Darrell Braun. It compared an Epiphone LP to a Gibson LP. Interesting.

I know I've said that my first guitar back when was a Gibson Les Paul and I have long, long regretted trading years ago. I loved that guitar. Not that I replaved it with junk but it was the 80's and I needed something purple and with a Floyd. Go figure...

It's why I have my current Gibson Les Paul; it very much reminds me of that old '68 I had. Primarily, there's no weight relief. I like a heavy Les Paul. So my Les Paul now on my wall fits that and the neck profile that feels like home.

That's the deal, it's gotta feel like it fits ya. I wouldn't shy away from a Studio but there's a good few different types and worth know what neck profile you like first and work from there.

Random thoughts.......


# 8
manXcat
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manXcat
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04/19/2022 10:13 pm
Originally Posted by: JeffS65

I know we've chatted (and agreed) that all the value is in the ability to enjoy and play.[/quote]

Definitively.[br][br]

Originally Posted by: JeffS65I am going to swap out pickups to TV Jones for a 'more Gretsch' sound but since I've saved $150 when I bought it, I 'payed' for at least one pickup.[/quote][br][br]I genuinely love the sound and tone of TV Jones pickups. I don't have anything fitted with them to date. One day perhaps, should I live long enough.[br][br]Re swapping out pickups. [br][br]I adhere to similar practice. I'll buy [u]with[/u] if it makes reasonable economic sense, e.g.PAC612VIIFM with custom hardware i.e. Seymour Duncans, GraphTech everything and Wilkinson Vibrato bridge, or if I like everything about an instrument including its pickup characteristics tones regardless e.g. RS420MYG of my avatar.[br][br] With my others, upgrading boils down to a the compromise of economic viability with opportunity buying triage. Some are strategically planned well in advance, e.g. my PAC311H's G&B 113 bridge PUP to a Seymour Duncan TB-14 Custom 5. Others, e.g. PAC112V consequent to luck, patiently watching and waiting for an opportunity buy which resulted earlier this year in fitment of a new Seymour Duncan TB-4 JB bridge PUP to one of them. Although hardly shabby in the first instance, replacing tone and or volume pots, capacitors, tuning mechs, nuts, saddles or the entire bridge are other ways I improve originals playability and tones without overcapitalising on the original instrument in the unlikely event I should come to sell it. [br][br]
Originally Posted by: JeffS65Anyway, I digress...Being in the moment can lead to snap judgements and you come home with something you're not really sure you like. By knowing I liked Gretsch and also doing this thing where I pine long enough for something, it ends up on sale, I got a good value that I love to play.[/quote][br][br]A pro, or con I suppose if perceived that way, of being so analytical and older, impulse buying and so change of mind buyer's remorse isn't something I'm particularly prone to. I tend to prethink my needs, wants, desires long before that buy button is pressed such that by that time a long cooldown period has had ample time to excise momentary lust or infatuation. Being like this, knowing what I want tends not to waver which in combination with patience also lends itself to fortuitious price buying. [br][br][quote=JeffS65]If you're lifelong goal is to own a Gibson Les Paul Stnadard, save and get what you want.
[br][br]I concur. No one bestowed by life experience, with wisdom and maturity could refute this. As a place to start, and I know you're not suggesting the above as such, compromise is the necessary and wiser position as you allude in your following sentence. [br][br] [quote=JeffS65]If you want to play guitar and the bank tells you that you don't have a Les Paul budget, there are a ton of great options.
[p]

[quote=JeffS65]Like that Yamaha Revstar. Mighty fine guitar there...I'm sure you concur manX :)
[br][br]Thank you. Mea culpa. I confess to my preferences/biases. Years now on, I'm still 'very much in love' with it. The instrument is just a good fit with me. I've since bought another Revstar, different model & PUP ftitout, which I love just as much in its own right. In fact, enjoyed buying quite a bit of kit expanding my perspectives of musicality over the past 18 months including major purchases like acoustic drums, a bass amp which of course required a bass guitar too, but haven't done a show and tell on any of it here to avoid offering opportunity for further malevolence inspired personal attacks. [br][br]Quite in the excitement of the moment as I am that my wife bought me my highly desired, long planned and lusted for current guitar pride and joy for my birthday the other day, nevertheless I hadn't posted anything. I may take a pic and do a short (I promise, the pic can do the talking) show and tell of it shortly, or not. And no, it's not a Yamaha anything. = ] [br][br]It sounds very much like this if I don't, and toil away as I might, won't ever. Per Ardua Ad Astra.


# 9
manXcat
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manXcat
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04/19/2022 10:36 pm
Originally Posted by: JeffS65It's why I have my current Gibson Les Paul; it very much reminds me of that old '68 I had. Primarily, there's no weight relief. I like a heavy Les Paul. So my Les Paul now on my wall fits that and the neck profile that feels like home.[/quote]

Begs two questions if you'll favour humoring me?[br][br]1. What does your current Les Paul weigh?[br][br]I know from previous posts by you that you prefer playing with a strap which IMPO/E is prerequisite with a Les Paul style guitar even 'balanced' in the sat on thigh style.

2. Do you (A) ever play seated with it, and if/when you do, (i) with a strap thigh style or (ii) 'centred' supported between the legs posture as always used by Andy self-illustrative here, common practice when seated with many LP players I've noted.

[quote=JeffS65]That's the deal, it's gotta feel like it fits ya.

[br][br]Summarised in a sentence.[br][br]I have an acquaintance who has become rather a friend over the years playing who loves his Les Pauls. He's a tallish 6' 2" vs my average 5' 9". They are a physical and everything else fit for/with him. Can only wish it were so for me. Undeniably a drop dead gorgeous aesthetic, arguably one of the most beautiful ever conceived.


# 10
john of MT
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john of MT
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04/20/2022 2:10 pm

I use the 'centered between legs' position exclusively and have for a very long time. I have a few posts describing how I came to use my 'modified classical' position to accommodate my Martin D-35 which felt too big for me to use in the way currently taught by virtually all, non-classical instructors including those here at GT.

In my journey I came to a conclusion that, just maybe, position has to do with current style or tradition as much as it does comfortable playing. Take a look at guitarists, way back in recording history and into the mid-60's... most times the guitar is centered, often very high, in front of the player. It seemed to me that sometime after the start of the British Invasion guitar positon style changed.

I'm not sure it makes much difference except when finding a comfortable way to hold a guitar. I think my reach improves a little bit with the modified classical position but not enough to argue about. The main thing... the big D-35 I love so much is very much playable 'centered between legs.'


"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
# 11
DraconusJLM
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DraconusJLM
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04/20/2022 4:34 pm

I mostly play standing (I learnt the hard way that playing at home sitting down can seriously mess up a tryout for a band where standing on stage is the goal). Maybe that's why pretty much anything fits (the exception being a Selmer clone which I love and is always played seated).


I wish this forum had a "block user" feature. Possibly I'm not the only one......

# 12
john of MT
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john of MT
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04/20/2022 11:44 pm

Again, the difference might be small but, I've thought playing seated in a modified classical position made the change to playing while standing easier, i.e., the guitar was directly in front of me, seated or standing. The position of the guitar relative to my body barely changed. YMMV.


"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
# 13
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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04/21/2022 2:00 pm
Originally Posted by: manXcat

Although hardly shabby in the first instance, replacing tone and or volume pots, capacitors, tuning mechs, nuts, saddles or the entire bridge are other ways I improve originals playability and tones without overcapitalising on the original instrument in the unlikely event I should come to sell it.

[/quote]

Good point, Any really, with too many alterations, at what point does it become a different guitar?

I'm in a Strat Facebook group and some guys will post about a score on a Squire on the cheap but want to do big changes to it. Cool, you got a deal and want to make it your own. I get that 'overhaul' scenario. There are guys that get a $1500 Fender Strat and start looking at the pickup market to changes. Why? Did you get the wrong guitar for your tastes but spent $1500? That's a head scratcher.

My goal, thus far, is to make the guitar more of what it's intended to be. When I did the pickup swap on my ES, it had those horrible Gibson 490 series pickups (horrible at least for an ES-style). So, I went with Alnico II's to mellow out the instrument. Before the swap, I never plugged it in but liked playing it. But days like yesterday, I plugged 'er in and had a grand time. Right decision to match the guitar to the pickup. That's always my goal.

My Les Paul as Gibson a 57/57+ set and exactly what I want. It's part of the reason I wanted this instrument. I may change out the wiring harness which currently has the circuit board, push-pull contraption. Not overly usable and I have other guitars that do what the pots/board do now. Something a little more standard, old school. Not sure. New nut is definately in order.

Originally Posted by: manXcat

I tend to prethink my needs, wants, desires long before that buy button is pressed such that by that time a long cooldown period has had ample time to excise momentary lust or infatuation

[/quote]

Yep. When your wife says; would you buy it already!! ...maybe I go overboard on that. But it has scored me some deals...

[quote=manXcat]

What does your current Les Paul weigh?

While not an official weight (since it's the bathroom scale of me without, then with the guitar) but she pretty much comes in at a little over 10lbs (US). Traditional's weight range is nine to somewhere over ten. I think I'm on the high end of that. I should clarify that while I said there's is no weight relief, that's not toally true, it just not gutted out and, I think, a few holes in the rear bout, if I recall my understanding of Gibson weight systems.

[quote=manXcat]

Do you (A) ever play seated with it, and if/when you do, (i) with a strap thigh style or (ii) 'centred' supported between the legs posture as always used by Andy self-illustrative here, common practice when seated with many LP players I've noted.

Strap, always. Seated or standing. Les Paul is no exception.

I pretty much always have since my early days in the 80's. I just found it easier to get it where I wanted it. Below, you'll see all my guitars are 'strap-ready'. I can just grab off the wall and play. I also like to match straps to the guitar as best I can (go Planet Waves woven!). I'm taller (6'00") with a little longer torso and I find I would hunch over the guitar too much.

Side note, the Shut Up & Play video you linked, that is almost exactly my first guitar/Les Paul. Even down to the little toggle by the pots. The toggle for mine was a phase switch that got you a little twank or Peter Green (though when I got my guitar back then, I didn't realize that). I do check out that YT channel but the first time I saw a video with that guitar I nearly soiled myself it was so close to my original '68 Deluxe. Mine was a little more brown/walnut-y and had a tiny chip out of the 12th fret inlay.

Strap ready for action! (still gotta get the print hung up behond the chair....)


# 14

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