Counting 6 8 time


deanbadam
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deanbadam
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08/27/2021 11:13 pm

Hi folks, any advice on getting the rhythum/beat for this piece would be very helpful. In general I'm fine with the 123 456 count for 6 8 time. I'm getting a little stuck though when the count starts the beat on a 16th note. Like do I go 123 and 4 and 5 6? I'm probably over thinking it but thought asking for help would be simplest :)

This occurs on the 456 count in the 3rd measure and start of the 4th measure.

Actually, also confused by the rest in the bottom line for the first measure. Shouldn't that only rest for 4 beats? Or is the convention that while its a whole note rest it rests for the whole measure regardless of time signature?

Thanks in advance

(edited to add and shrink the picture of the music, thought I don't think its working)


# 1
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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08/28/2021 2:05 pm
Originally Posted by: deanbadamHi folks, any advice on getting the rhythum/beat for this piece would be very helpful.[/quote]

What piece of music is it? The uploaded image is not displayed.

Originally Posted by: deanbadamI'm getting a little stuck though when the count starts the beat on a 16th note. Like do I go 123 and 4 and 5 6?

Yes, 1/16ths in 6/8 are counted as upbeats on the "ands" in between numbered counts.

1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and

[quote=deanbadam]Actually, also confused by the rest in the bottom line for the first measure. Shouldn't that only rest for 4 beats? Or is the convention that while its a whole note rest it rests for the whole measure regardless of time signature?

It is a standard convention! The whole rest symbol is often used to indicate resting the entire measure regardless of the time signature.

Hope that helps!


Christopher Schlegel
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# 2
deanbadam
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deanbadam
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08/28/2021 11:03 pm

Thanks Chris - any advice on how to get the picture showing properly? Is there a size limit?

The song is E Toru Nga Mea, not thinking it will be public domain :)

Where I'm stuck is counting when the beat starts on the 16th.

I'll try and describe it!

2 beat rest (so 1, 2), 1 beat (quaver, so 3), so that's the first 3 beats of the 6 easy enough. Then it goes semiquaver (half - 4 I guess), dotted quaver (1 and a half - so and 5?), quaver (6). Its counting the second half I cant get to feel right, though I know the beat of the song ok.

The next measure is sort of the same. Semiquaver (1?) followed by dotted quaver (and 2?), quaver (3), dotted crotchet (4, 5, 6).

Appreciate your help.


# 3
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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08/29/2021 2:09 pm
Originally Posted by: deanbadamThanks Chris - any advice on how to get the picture showing properly? Is there a size limit?[/quote]

I'm not sure. I've been able to resize images smaller to fit on the page. But sometimes it doesn't work. Try again? :)

I looked up several versions of the song & most are written in 3/4. I didn't find any in 6/8.

[quote=deanbadam]2 beat rest (so 1, 2), 1 beat (quaver, so 3), so that's the first 3 beats of the 6 easy enough. Then it goes semiquaver (half - 4 I guess), dotted quaver (1 and a half - so and 5?), quaver (6). Its counting the second half I cant get to feel right, though I know the beat of the song ok.

It sounds like you've got the right idea. If there's a 1/16th note on the downbeat of 4, then a dotted 1/8th immediately following, then play a note on 4 & the next note on the and of 4, lasting through to the down beat of 6.

Hope that helps!


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# 4
deanbadam
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deanbadam
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08/29/2021 8:35 pm

Thanks Chris. So the dotted 1/8 note would fall on the up strum?


# 5
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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08/30/2021 1:16 pm

Thanks for the notation image!

Originally Posted by: deanbadam

Thanks Chris. So the dotted 1/8 note would fall on the up strum?

[br]First, let's get clear on what you are trying to do. In my previous post I'm only referring to how to count the musical events. This has nothing to do with strumming patterns, or playing the music on the guitar.

Downbeat simply means the beats on the counted numbers: 1-2-3, etc. You can play a downbeat note or chord with a downstrum or upstrum depending on what is most efficient to physically play any given piece of music in real time.

Upbeat simply means the beats in between the counted numbers. Likewise, you can play an upbeat note or chord with a downstrum or upstrum.

Second, what we are discussing is only the vocal melody. Now you can play the vocal melody on the guitar, in which case you need to know the rhythms, but even then it does not translate to a strumming pattern.

In most cases you are going to use the guitar to accompany the vocal melody. So you are not going to match the vocal melody exactly. You are going to play something that compliments it. Especially in this case, if you only strummed when the vocal melody sang a note, you'd get a lot of "dead air": time when you aren't doing anything because the vocal melody is resting or holding a note. But the entire point behind an accompaniment part is to provide a constant background rhythm & harmony.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwr5UEIaRo4

The guitar is accompanying the vocals. If you count it in 6/8, then it is playing a constant chord strumming pattern on beats 1, skipping 2 & 3, playing on, 4, 5, 6. This serves as a constant rhythmic & harmonic background for the melody to "float over". Make sense?

Having said all that, yes, you have the rhythm of the vocal melody right!


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# 6
deanbadam
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deanbadam
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09/04/2021 12:07 am

Thanks Chris, appreciate the distinction (between melody and rhythum), although to be fair I'd been trying to learn the guitar for a few years before I totally realised it; I went for a lesson and the guys like 'no no NO' :)

I do still play the melody sometimes more as practice for picking notes and sight reading, or for fun when I'm playing solo with no singing or accompanyment, but it hasn't helped my rhythm practice so I avoid it a bit more now.

In this instance I was trying to understand the music and then went oh yeah, I just need to find a strum patter than works. But then wanted to understand it for umm learning / curiousities sake.

Appreciate your help.


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ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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09/04/2021 1:08 pm

You're welcome!

Originally Posted by: deanbadam

...although to be fair I'd been trying to learn the guitar for a few years before I totally realised it; I went for a lesson and the guys like 'no no NO' :)[/quote][p]Good story. :)[br][br]

[quote=deanbadam]I do still play the melody sometimes more as practice ...

That's a wonderful idea. Best of success!


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# 8
matthewdiamondvn32
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matthewdiamondvn32
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09/08/2021 10:30 am
Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel

Thanks for the notation image!

Originally Posted by: deanbadam

Thanks Chris. So the dotted 1/8 note would fall on the up strum?

[br]First, let's get clear on what you are trying to do. In my previous post I'm only referring to how to count the musical events. This has nothing to do with strumming patterns, or playing the music on the guitar.

Downbeat simply means the beats on the counted numbers: 1-2-3, etc. You can play a downbeat note or chord with a downstrum or upstrum depending on what is most efficient to physically play any given piece of music in real time.

Upbeat simply means the beats in between the counted numbers. Likewise, you can play an upbeat note or chord with a downstrum or upstrum.

Second, what we are discussing is only the vocal melody. Now you can play the vocal melody on the guitar, in which case you need to know the rhythms, but even then it does not translate to a strumming pattern.

In most cases you are going to use the guitar to accompany the vocal melody. So you are not going to match the vocal melody exactly. You are going to play something that compliments it. Especially in this case, if you only strummed when the vocal melody sang a note, you'd get a lot of "dead air": time when you aren't doing anything because the vocal melody is resting or holding a note. But the entire point behind an accompaniment part is to provide a constant background rhythm & harmony. https://www.tellthebell.run/

The guitar is accompanying the vocals. If you count it in 6/8, then it is playing a constant chord strumming pattern on beats 1, skipping 2 & 3, playing on, 4, 5, 6. This serves as a constant rhythmic & harmonic background for the melody to "float over". Make sense?

Having said all that, yes, you have the rhythm of the vocal melody right!

Thanks for sharing this proper solution.


# 9

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