Grid Pattern for Scales

SusanMW
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Joined: 07/05/20
Posts: 222

I'm having trouble grasping the grid pattern for scales. I am in Fundamentals 2 working on the major scales lessons. Could someone explain this concept a little more in depth? I know what the grid looks like....so, you use this pattern for any note anywhere on the neck and that is the scale? I feel like I just need some more context to grasp this. And then to play the linear kind of scale....I'm just a little confused with that, too. So either one is playable?

Also, how proficient in scales should I be to move on? Is this something I will just constantly be working at and working into my practice? I have gone through and studied quite deeply the Music Theory Basics course by Christopher. (Awesome lessons, by the way...)

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm determined to get this....

“Often, what seems like an impossible climb is just a staircase without the steps drawn in.” Robert Brault, American Operatic Tenor

# 1
ddiddler
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Joined: 05/13/20
Posts: 327

Christopher Schlegel has just put some new series of lessons up for Minor scale and major scale shapes. so if you click on Christopher on the Instructors tab they may come up. Otherwise try a search. Major scale series 1.

Also look in the toolbox at the scale finder.

I printed a couple of the box shapes off for a couple of Major, Minor and Pentatonic

You may be able to compare to see how the boxes have moved for each scale. The main point being you move the root note in the box on to root position of the scale your trying to use or go to.

I'm no more experienced than yourself to be able to give advice. Sometimes being able to do comes well before being able to understand.

Dave

# 2
calvincastillo19845
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Joined: 12/16/20
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A major scale is a diatonic scale. The sequence of intervals between the notes of a major scale is: whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. where "whole" stands for a whole tone (a red u-shaped curve in the figure), and "half" stands for a semitone (a red angled line in the figure).

# 3
SusanMW
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Joined: 07/05/20
Posts: 222

Thank you, I will check out those new lessons.

“Often, what seems like an impossible climb is just a staircase without the steps drawn in.” Robert Brault, American Operatic Tenor

# 4
ddiddler
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Christophers first ''box'' is moveable

6th string frets 5.7.9

5th string frets 5.7.9

4 th string frets 6,7

so for an experiment start on any of the notes on the 6 th .

then do the count 5,7,9 5,7,9 and 6.7 and recognise how the scale sounds out.

This works on any of the strings until the B string gets involved then you may have to move up the string by a half or whole step but you will hear it.

What he is doing is moving up a string to find the next notes rather than linear

any note, up 1 string and down 5 frets get you the same note ,then you have to know if your wanting to move a half step or a full step back up the neck

Dave

# 5
ChristopherSchlegel
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Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 7,920
Originally Posted by: SusanMWI'm having trouble grasping the grid pattern for scales.[/quote]

Scales can be confusing for guitar students because:

1. You can play the same note in more than one place on the guitar.

2. Some patterns aren't always possible near the nut when your pattern runs up against the open strings.

3. Some patterns change when they cross from the G string to the B string, because all the strings are tuned 5 frets apart except for those 2 strings which are 4 fret apart.

Originally Posted by: SusanMWI am in Fundamentals 2 working on the major scales lessons. Could someone explain this concept a little more in depth?[/quote]

It might be helpful to watch this short 3 lesson tutorial that covers the conceptual basics of the major scale on the guitar.

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=363

Originally Posted by: SusanMWI know what the grid looks like....so, you use this pattern for any note anywhere on the neck and that is the scale?[/quote]

Essentially, yes. But there are exceptions. And it's not necessary to play & know all of this RIGHT NOW! Just take it one step, lesson & scale pattern at a time. :)

[br]

Originally Posted by: SusanMWAnd then to play the linear kind of scale....I'm just a little confused with that, too. So either one is playable?
[p]Yes, but it depends on the musical context. You use whichever pattern is the most practical to get the job done. And you don't have to worry about or play all those patterns until you need them.

[quote=SusanMW]Also, how proficient in scales should I be to move on?

At the beginner stage a student is just starting to learn:

1. The physical motions required to play single string melodies.

2. The sound & intervals of the scales as the building blocks of music; essentially aural or ear training.

So just start with one pattern in the easiest possible pattern & practice it. Keep playing it until you have it memorized. The purpose of this is to achieve the 2 steps above:

1. Build physical skill.

2. Apply those scale patterns to music & understand how scales are used to play melodies & connect chords.

For example, Lisa shows a bunch of open scale patterns in GF 2. If you are able to do those, then you are doing fine. Just practice them as you keep working through the course. Eventually that will give you the finger strength & dexterity to learn more scale patterns when you need them.

[quote=SusanMW]Is this something I will just constantly be working at and working into my practice?

In general, yes. But it really depends on your goals for your playing. Some people will never need scales beyond being able to play small melodic runs in between chords, or short melodies to embellish their chordal strumming.

Some people want to know a little more, like how to play simple lead guitar melodies or solos. So, they will need to now a little more about how to apply scale patterns in more areas of the fretboard.

Some people want to play lead guitar all over the fretboard! So they spend a lot of time learning, drilling, practicing, playing many types of scale patterns all over the fretboard.

For now, just follow the course. Get used to how the major & minor scales sound. Get practice at playing single note lines by playing the melodies & scales in GF2.

[quote=SusanMW] I have gone through and studied quite deeply the Music Theory Basics course by Christopher. (Awesome lessons, by the way...)

Dave (ddiddler) mentioned some of my recent lessons on scales. Those are good, but a little more advanced. They are designed to be used after GF2. They show how to apply the major scale in multiple ways.

Major Scale Patterns 1

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=453

Minor Scale Patterns 1

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=887

There is a part 2 for each of the above on the way that expands on these concepts to show how to apply them across the whole guitar with lots of practical applications & play alongs. Stay tuned!

So, thanks for the mention, Dave. But those might be a little beyond the scope of this particular situation.

Hope that helps!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 6
SusanMW
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Joined: 07/05/20
Posts: 222

Thank you so much Christopher! That really helps a lot. Can't wait to work on it today.

“Often, what seems like an impossible climb is just a staircase without the steps drawn in.” Robert Brault, American Operatic Tenor

# 7
ddiddler
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Posts: 327

difficulty level noted Christopher.

I have done the Major Series 1 and it didn't fry my brain

I had started looking around the fretboard and trying to move the scales myself.

Also picked up bits and pieces from Mike Olekshy Friday classes.

I'm kind of stuck around GF2 until my speed levels increase but also seeing what more I can add where I can.

Moving up one string and down 5 frets was something I was looking for after knowing about the Magic L but had never heard it until I did your series.

Having taken notes through GF1 & 2 the scale notations are dotted around various pages in my notebook. It was good to see all the Major scales presented on one worksheet as well as your various work throughs.

I am slowly building up a ring binder with a view to having a more organised practice routine.

So thanks Christopher I enjoyed the Major Series 1 lessons.

Dave

# 8
ChristopherSchlegel
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Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 7,920
Originally Posted by: SusanMW

Thank you so much Christopher! That really helps a lot. Can't wait to work on it today.

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 9
ChristopherSchlegel
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Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 7,920
Originally Posted by: ddiddler

I have done the Major Series 1 and it didn't fry my brain[/quote][p]Thank goodness for that! We shall call it a victory. :)[br][br]

Originally Posted by: ddiddlerI'm kind of stuck around GF2 until my speed levels increase but also seeing what more I can add where I can.[/quote]

This is an important observation. Sometimes I've seen students get too worried about learning more scales & patterns when they can't even play the basics ones as music yet. Conceptual knowledge & physical technique are 2 separate things that don't always grow at the same pace. It's important to keep them as close together as possible for optimal learning & playing.

[quote=ddiddler]Moving up one string and down 5 frets was something I was looking for after knowing about the Magic L but had never heard it until I did your series.

Right, it's sort of implied in everything you learn on guitar. But it's an important thing to explicitly say, know & be able to use.

[quote=ddiddler]

So thanks Christopher I enjoyed the Major Series 1 lessons.

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 10
snojones
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Joined: 04/17/13
Posts: 675

Susan,

First of all.... You already know how Patience, persistance, and Practice are the key to learning new thing on the guitar.

These scale patterns will seem incomprehensible on first approach. However, once you learn these patterns, you can transpose (change the key of a song) to another key with very little problems. You simply move those patterns up or down the neck and you change keys. This is critical to playing with other people. Which is where the most fun can be found.

It is a large task to get all these patterns down, but in the end it is much simpler way to transpose a song (so it isn't to high or low for the vocalist or lead instrument to preform). As you start to play with other people this will be a huge advantage over piano, wood winds, and most other instruments. For those instruments you have to learn a diffrent fingering for each change of key. There are 12 possible keys all of which can be Major, Minor, chromatic, not to mention Modes or Blues Scales. DIFFRENT PATTERNS FOR EACH KEY means that those other instruments have to completly change their fingering to play in another key. On the neck of a guitar, many of scales are acheived by simply moving the scale pattern up or down a few frets. This may be beyond your ablity now, but that will change as your finger and brain intergrate these patterns.

Practice the patterns, learn the patterns, apply the patterns, and finally soar on the patterns. That is how I started to learn how to play lead guitar. I will never master that entire subject, it is too vast and I am too old. You, on the other hand, are young and that is the biggest advantage when it comes to using all the diffrent scales to your advantage. I envy your advatage!!

Once again it comes down to practice, patience, and persistance. In fact patience, practice and persistance will be your guide as long as you seek to improve your ablities on guitar.

For the immediate future, I would suggest you work on understanding those basic scale patterns. Learn where all the scale degrees are located. The position of the # 1 note in that scale pattern is how to determine what key you are playing in. This unlocks the question of how all these scales make sense when you try to play music with other people. This is all vital for your futrue as a guitarist.

In other words once again you already know the secret key to this knowledge..... KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Patience, Persistance, and Practice.

Captcha is a total pain in the........

# 11
SusanMW
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Joined: 07/05/20
Posts: 222

Thank you so much for your tips!

I spent some time working the scales today and they are so much fun to play. The grid is finally making sense. It's all starting to come together. I will keep working at these basic ones like you suggested. When I first started learning how to play in July I became fixated on playing melodies and that's all I did for nearly two months! I started regretting that once I started strumming because I felt like I spent too much time on melodies. But alas, my time on the guitar is never wasted. Now all that string work and memorization I did is paying off and I'm able to play the scales a little better than what I would have I think.

Thanks again!

“Often, what seems like an impossible climb is just a staircase without the steps drawn in.” Robert Brault, American Operatic Tenor

# 12
SusanMW
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Joined: 07/05/20
Posts: 222

I watched Christophers lessons on the C Major Scale for Beginners and WOW! That was so incredibly helpful. I also watched the Picking exercises and plan to watch that whole chapter soon. But for tonight...I'll be working on scales and alternate picking. Thanks again, this was really helpful.

(On a side note, I think GT should possibly include a giant button for Music Theory on the home page with the rest of the courses. Sometimes these get buried and I just stumble upon them by accident. Or someone points them out to me. I know you can click on each instructor and check lessons out that way, but something more direct might be helpful when it comes to big chapters like this Music Theory one.)

“Often, what seems like an impossible climb is just a staircase without the steps drawn in.” Robert Brault, American Operatic Tenor

# 13
ChristopherSchlegel
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Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 7,920
Originally Posted by: SusanMW

I watched Christophers lessons on the C Major Scale for Beginners and WOW! That was so incredibly helpful. I also watched the Picking exercises and plan to watch that whole chapter soon. But for tonight...I'll be working on scales and alternate picking. Thanks again, this was really helpful.[/quote]

[quote=SusanMW]

(On a side note, I think GT should possibly include a giant button for Music Theory on the home page with the rest of the courses.

[p]Thanks for the suggestion. The general idea is that there is just enough theory in the context of the lessons in the course for most beginner students. If you want more theory, then you can have a look at the Music Theory collection.

https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/music-theory

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 14
ChristopherSchlegel
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Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 7,920
Originally Posted by: SusanMW

But alas, my time on the guitar is never wasted. Now all that string work and memorization I did is paying off and I'm able to play the scales a little better than what I would have I think.

This is exactly the right attitude! Good for you!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 15