Modes conclusion

Axl_Rose
Registered User
Joined: 04/08/01
Posts: 1,258
11/19/2002 10:47 am
So this is G Ionian

-----------------------------------------
-----------------------15----------------
-12---14br---12---14bb----14bb--12--12~~~
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
-G-----------G------------------G----G---
(G is emphasised)

And This is G Aelioan (E minor?)

--12~~-----------12br~~-------------------
------13--12--13---------14--15---17~~~~--
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
--E---------------E---------------E-------

Is that a way of changing mode?!? from major to minor by emphasising the E instead of the G?

TheDirt
Registered User
Joined: 03/28/02
Posts: 569
11/19/2002 7:26 pm
Your first one is right, but the second is also G Ionian, but since the emphasis is placed on the E, it can be viewed as E Aeolian instead of G Ionian (all of this assumes you are playing over chords from the G Major scale).

To be playing in G Aeolian, you'd need to be playing a Bb and Eb and F natural in your lead over a chord found in the G Aeolian chords (also the chords found in Bb Ionian).

G Ionian = G, A, B, C, D, E, F#
E Aeolian = E, F#, G, A, B, C, D (same as G Ionian)
G Aeolian = G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F

Notice I am emphasizing the chords you're playing over. If you're playing the notes G, A, B, C, D, E, and F#, that's G Ionian, which = A Dorian, which = B Phyrgian, which = C Lydian, etc. Focusing on the G sounds different depending on the chord you're playing over. If you're playing over a G chord it's the root, over an A Minor chord it's the 7th, over a D chord it's the 4th (or 11th), over a C chord it's the 5th, etc...

The chord progression defines the mode. If the chord progression is G, C, D, G, then you're playing in G Ionian. If you play in E Aeolian, it'll sound just like G Ionian because of the chords. Playing in G Ionian over Em, D, C, D will sound just like E Aeolian because the chord progression is E Aeolian. Get it?

If you want to understand about switching modes mid progression, record yourself playing a G5 chord for a minute or two. Now play this back. First play the G Lydian (G, A, B, C#, D, E, F#) scale up and down and listen to it. Then play G Ionian (G, A, B, C, D, E, F#), then G Mixolydian (G, A, B, C, D, E, F), then G Dorian(G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F), then G Aeolian (G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F), then G Phyrgian (G, Ab, Bb, C, D, Eb, F), and lastly G Locrian (G, Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F), although Locrian won't sound right since it has a diminished 5th and you're playing over a perfect 5th. This will get the sound of each mode in your head. Notice the defining notes of each mode.

Mode Defining Note(s)
-------------------------------
Lydian #4
Ionian 4
Mixolydian b7
Dorian 6
Aeolian b6
Phyrgian b2
Locrian b5

Applying these defining notes - playing over an A Aeolian chord progression (Am, G, F, G) it sometimes sounds good to play a Bb, perhaps then sliding up to B. This is drawing a note out of A Phyrgian and using it over an A Aeolian progression. Sure it sounds slightly "out", but if that's the sound you're going for... also, it sounds good sometimes to use F# over an A Aeolian progression, which is drawing the natural 6 from A Dorian. In General, you can play whatever note you want, but if it's not from the mode of the chord progression, then you probably want to just use it as a passing note. Use your ear as the final judge, and sorry for the super long winded post.

If any of this info isn't right, somebody please tell me. I wrote a lot, so I'm sure I messed something up :)
"You must stab him in the heart with the Bone Saber of Zumacalis... well, you could stab him in the head or the lungs, too... and the saber, it probably doesn't have to be bone, just anything sharp lying around the house... you could poke him with a pillow and kill him."

- Aqua Teen Hunger Force, The Universal Re-Monster
Christoph
is Super Fabulous
Joined: 03/06/01
Posts: 1,623
11/19/2002 8:52 pm

If I wasn't already confused, I would be now.

Poor Axl . . .

TheDirt
Registered User
Joined: 03/28/02
Posts: 569
11/19/2002 8:59 pm
I'm sorry, I suck at explaining stuff... if what I said doesn't make sense just ignore it. Or perhaps you could stare at it for hours and it might magically make sense... oh well, once again, sorry for being confusing.
"You must stab him in the heart with the Bone Saber of Zumacalis... well, you could stab him in the head or the lungs, too... and the saber, it probably doesn't have to be bone, just anything sharp lying around the house... you could poke him with a pillow and kill him."

- Aqua Teen Hunger Force, The Universal Re-Monster
Christoph
is Super Fabulous
Joined: 03/06/01
Posts: 1,623
11/19/2002 9:07 pm

LOL . . . no, you're fine. I see what you're saying because I have a good handle on theory, but it does sound sort of confusing.

I think what you're saying is that the notes of your chords determine which key you're in . . . which makes complete sense.

Joined: 07/22/24
Posts: 0
11/20/2002 12:03 am

MY GOD! I taught I got the hold of modes but listening to you guys makes me wonder lol

We should do a collab to post a tutorial on how to understand all this change modes/change chords thing...

I get lots of e-mail about people wanting to know how to use modes, I help them the best I can but this stuff is advanced theory for me.

I play by ear so 90% of the time I don't have a clue of what I'm playing. I need to sit down and tab my own stuff :)

What do you say, should we post a real long tutorial that convers all this, we could also submit it in the newsletter once done. It would probably help a lot of members.
Zeppelin
Moderator
Joined: 08/22/00
Posts: 848
11/20/2002 11:12 am
lol i never knew modes where that complicated :P
luckily i got myself a good book about theory of music and learned it with guitar teacher BEFORE i saw your expalnations here :)
"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."

ren hoek
Axl_Rose
Registered User
Joined: 04/08/01
Posts: 1,258
11/20/2002 11:46 am
I finally get it!!!!
No one even mentioned that the mode is defined by the notes you emphasise and cover a particluar chord prog.!! Im going to be playing modes indavertantly from now on, Im not going to both with the name of the one Im playing either.
The are two types of mode-ness Ive learned.

Type one - When you emphasise different notes in a scale to give it favour, notes not neccessarily in the chord formulas of the ones your playing in the background. So G D C progression is G major, but by emphasising Lots of E's Ill give it a different colour, you might call it E Aelion or whatever!!, then the song could change key tonally to E, wonder how that would sounds, a solo in E (kinda) then the song changes to E

Type 2 - Soloing along to a progression then the song changes Key. So I'll be soloing in C Major then we have a pause in the song then a A5 B5 C5 D5 D#5 / / / / / kinda key change then I'll solo in D major, you could say im changing mode to D Dorian or whatever!!!

Later
Slow Diver
Registered User
Joined: 02/27/02
Posts: 379
11/21/2002 12:25 pm
Well I think you are digging too much in this theory. i for example don't even know all the names of all the modes but I can figure out how to build them. I think that it is beast to try everything you could possibly imagine when you are practicing improvisation without bothereing if it's right or wrong, just trusting your instincts. It is good to have knowledge in theory but I don;t see any sense of digging that much in it if you are not doing symphonies and stuff like that. The beuty of rock music is that it is not logical. Let's say for example nirvana -- a total rape of music theory See About A Girl
First it goes Em, G Em G etc and than I can't see according to which of the modal rules in the chorus it shifts to C# G# F# E A C but it still sounds great, right?
The world is loaded, it's lit to pop, nobody is gonna stop!
SLY
Un-Registered User
Joined: 08/08/02
Posts: 1,613
11/21/2002 2:53 pm
Knowing different scales & modes just makes you a better & versatil musician.
This doesn't mean you have to memorize every thing, just try to understand how it goes so you can easily refer to your books or whatever if you forgot something.