The myth of the "self-taught" guitarist.


kingdavid
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kingdavid
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11/14/2002 8:14 am
A friend of mine(who doesn't play the guitar,or any other musical instrument for that matter)was once being critical of my approach to learning the guitar,his bone of contention being my use of books,obtaining tab(and from it being able to play)of songs even he knows from the net,and so on.He was of the opinion that the best guitarists,the ones with "real" talent,in general are those who fiddle with their instruments on their own and are able to figure these things out.In other words,"self taught".
Now,as I've come to learn from those of you who happen to know this,someone like Joe Satriani is a very good guitarist.Some would say gifted.Others(like the writers of the copy on an Ibanez poster I saw in a music store) would say he's amongst the most respected guitarists in the world.I've never heard any of his stuff,but from what I hear,he's good.
And he went to Berkelee.
Which,I think,disqualifies him from my friend's list of the good and the gifted;
"He was taught guitar in a school,for God's sake!"
You'll also hear some(or many) of the guitarists you admire say,in interviews in magazines,on TV,on websites and so on,say that they are self taught.I've also seen some people on this site,in relation to how they learnt,say they are self taught.Quote unquote.
The following is an extract from an article I read from the site http://www.guitarnoise.com that I really agree with.I'm writing it here coz these sentiments about self taught and all that can have a demoralising effect on guitarsits,and especially learners,in as far as their skill level and all that stuff is concerned.
Here goes:

"Think about this: What, exactly, does the term ā€œself-taughtā€ mean? Anyone, including me, who tells you that he or she is a self-taught guitarist is living a bit of a delusion. In all fairness, this is not intentional ā€“ we simply do not know how to better explain how we learned the instrument. But it is very safe to say that our learning how to play the guitar (or about music, for that matter) was not the individual accomplishment that ā€œself-taughtā€ literally describes, that is one without any outside source at all. Someone or something taught us how to tune the thing, how putting notes together in certain ways produced chords, all sorts of things like that.
You see, ā€œself-taughtā€ is usually short hand for ā€œI learned without the formal use of a teacher, but I had a lot of help. From books, from friends, (and these days) from the internet. From watching and listening and then being able to put two and two together myself.ā€...
...Everyone got help of some kind in order to get to whatever level of playing ability he or she currently enjoys. And in order to reach whatever that next stage of development may be, more help is going to be needed...
Before you can get anywhere, itā€™s usually a good idea to have an idea, any idea no matter how vague, as to where you want to go. This advice is the same whether you are a pure beginner or whether you have been playing for decades and want to up the ante a little bit.

And you also have to have a really good idea as to where you currently are. What do you already know? Do you have any previous musical background? Have you learned another instrument, even if it was clarinet waaaaaaayyyy back in the third grade? Can you read music? If not, would you like to be able to? What sort of music do you listen to? Why do you want to play the guitar? What kinds of music would you like to be able to play on the guitar? Do you have more interest in learning how to play on your own or do you want to be able to sit in with other musicians as well? Are you more concerned with your own enjoyment or do you want to make a career out of this (and these things are not mutually exclusive)? Which guitaristsā€™ styles/sounds/songs most interest you? If you could play any one song or solo right here and now what would that be?

Before I agree to take on a new student, I insist that we talk over many of these questions. I truly donā€™t expect my prospective pupil to have a lot of answers, but I do hope that he or she has a few clues.

Please understand that these questions are not meant to be intimidating or to show you huge holes in your thought processes or anything like that. They are to get you thinking.

More than anything else, how you decide to proceed from this point is going to be a matter of your own personality. If you are first able to be honest with yourself about what you really want to do, then you should be able to start to take those steps that will get you closer to where you want to be.

And with so many available means of obtaining information, youā€™re bound to run into two distinct dangers: being overwhelmed or being paralyzed. Either you go scurrying around from one source to the next and never end up actually doing or learning anything or else you are spending so much time analyzing what you want to do that, again, you wind up not doing anything. So yeah, I guess you could also add that you could become paralyzed because youā€™ve been overwhelmed."


So there.


# 1
Slow Diver
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Slow Diver
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11/14/2002 8:59 am
Of course nobody can be completely self taught. By self taught I think that people mean "lacking formal instruction". To be self taught means to gain info on your own by looking at books, on the net, videos.
And another thing - personaly I don't like any of the guitar players that have been in a school of music. Many people would call me an asshole, but these guys sound as conservatory guys. The players that I respect the most are Hendrix, Navarro, Slash, Izzy, people whom I can't imagine attending a harmony class(for example) in some music college for big a$$es with lots of money.
Furthermore nowdays you can be doing pretty good music without being into the real bizz. I mean that there are lots of great indipendent bands who are doing something else in the "real life" for cash and they still have successful bands. They sell their CD-s on their gigs and through their websites and they are doing just fine. That is what I suppose I will do in my life. Being famous reqires too many sacrifices, like selling yourself and becoming a product. Which is far from what I want to become.
The world is loaded, it's lit to pop, nobody is gonna stop!
# 2
SLY
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SLY
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11/14/2002 9:07 am
Yeah, the term "Self-Taught" is usualy mis-understood... no one is entirely self-taught, or else he would have never gone so far.
Every guitarist had his sources that made him learn how to play, teacher,friends,books,internet,etc.

On the other hand, if you learn the basic stuff from someone or something , you can still go further by yourself without any help, this can also be called "Self-Taught"... and that's what realy happens when somebody claims that he's self-taught, he means that he figured out a lot of technics & stuff by himself, not that he figured out the EADgbe tuning,chords & scales wihtout any external help.
# 3
Azrael
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Azrael
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11/14/2002 12:53 pm
the only thing that MIGHT make a "self tought" guitarrist a bit better is the fact that his style is not influenced by a teacher. so he might come up with his own unique idea. but then again - there must be some source where you get your inspiration from. i wonder what a dude would sound like that has not TV, no radio, no fanzines - nothing - just a guitar. would realy be interresting to know what this dude would play on the guitar.

i say the real cool peeps where those who came up with something entirely new - something that came from themselves, and not from copying someone else.

[FONT=Times New Roman]Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves. What you decide to do every day makes you a good person... or not.[/FONT][br][br]

# 4
Vaiyngsatch
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Vaiyngsatch
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11/14/2002 7:48 pm
Everyone learns from someone, except in you live in a Forrest in Finland with no TV, radio, or records!

Sara
# 5
u10ajf
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u10ajf
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11/15/2002 1:50 pm
To quote Azreal

"the only thing that MIGHT make a "self tought" guitarrist a bit better is the fact that his style is not influenced by a teacher."

I used to worry a hell of a lot about being un-original and that compelled me not to work from books or to undertake the hasslesome job of learning to read music. Now I really regret that. I'd urge anyone learning guitar not to let their pride to subvert their learning potential. I literally never consciously learned anyone elses pieces for many years. That has now changed (a little) but I'm caught in a rut It's really held my playing back. In spite of this urge for originality I have finally found that some of the stylistic tendencies of my heros like Satch and Lifeson are rubbing off in my playing. I daresay I would be further down that road if I'd swallowed my pride.
If you want to be really original make damn sure you don't listen to anyone else's music! Get a degree in acoustic physics and find a new intervallic system for your guitar! Nobody will be able to jam with you, it will probably sound horrible but at least you'll be able to credit yourself with it and feel smug.
Alternatively learn every style available and pick and choose from any style you want without worrying that you have been stylistically polluted by influences! Then we might all want to rip you off!
If I couldn't laugh at myself how could I laugh at someone less ridiculous?
# 6
Josh Redstone
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Josh Redstone
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11/15/2002 3:23 pm
I could go either way on this. I was taught to read music, and stuff like intervals and chordes, but a lot of other techniques I figured out on my own. I think having a teacher is a great idea, and I understand why a lot of people end up regretting not getting one or not learning about music or something. You dont have to worry about being un original in my opinion, because even if you tried to copy someone else style exactly, you couldn't do it. It may sound similar, but it wont be an exact replica of that persons playing.
And I think its perfectly okay to go to some big music school and learn about theory, because that way, you know all the ins and outs, and song structures and harmonies would be much easyer to build. You'd still have to make them sound good though.
There is something Mike Mushok said once. Learn all the theory you can, then forget it. I could go and be this huge theory wiz, but I wouldn't look at writing music like, "Oh well I'm in C minor so I cant use this scale because bla bla bla.." I would just go "Well, thats a nice idea, oh look, its a harmonic minor scale, how bout that?"
Being taught or self taught is cool either way, but I think that whatever you do, you still must be able to make your guitar engoyable to listen too.
And God said, 'Let there be rock!'
-And it was good
# 7
Zeppelin
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Zeppelin
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11/15/2002 5:02 pm
of course theres always someone or something which /who helps you.. books, records, internet.. no one of us invent things .. we all learn from things around us.
The thing is , that theres a huge difference between a guy who went to guitar teacher , took lessons ,learned scales , harmony, melody, and what not and then was able to use things he learnt to create good music and a guy who learned all this only by hearing songs people played..

"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."

ren hoek
# 8
Polera
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Polera
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11/15/2002 11:51 pm
you want self taught? Try playing a one-string as Slash did! lol!
WWSD? What would stevie do?
# 9
Dr_simon
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Dr_simon
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11/16/2002 12:09 am
Which one is more important, where you are from or where you are at ?
My instructors page and www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS
# 10
Josh Redstone
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Josh Redstone
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11/16/2002 12:48 am
That is beside the point. Where you are depends on how you got there.
And God said, 'Let there be rock!'
-And it was good
# 11
fendermonkey77
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fendermonkey77
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11/16/2002 3:07 am
Yeah...you are where you're at because of where you've come from...I hereby copyright that...must go write a song now...
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# 12
SLY
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SLY
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11/16/2002 11:50 am
Slash took lessons at some period too.
# 13
u10ajf
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u10ajf
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11/16/2002 8:15 pm
someone told me that Yngqie Malmsteem gave him lessons but I dont' know cause that person bull****s. Anyone know?
If I couldn't laugh at myself how could I laugh at someone less ridiculous?
# 14
Josh Redstone
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Josh Redstone
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11/16/2002 8:40 pm
I dunno about that. I suppose anything is possible.
And God said, 'Let there be rock!'
-And it was good
# 15
fendermonkey77
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fendermonkey77
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11/16/2002 8:49 pm
I know Satch gave Vai lessons.
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# 16
Josh Redstone
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Josh Redstone
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11/16/2002 8:51 pm
That was way back in the day when they were both little kids. Satch also taught Kirk Hammett a bit, before he joined Metallica.
And God said, 'Let there be rock!'
-And it was good
# 17
chris mood
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chris mood
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11/17/2002 11:07 am
What's wrong with being a schooled musician?
Would you want to go to a Doctor that was self taught? How about a mechanic, lawyer or accountant?
Is Salvador Dali not a good artist because he attended art school?
There are more important things learned at those high priced music schools then harmony classes; such as how to communicate with other musicians, and how to listen, appreciate, and draw inspiration from variuos styles of music.
# 18
SLY
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SLY
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11/17/2002 1:10 pm
Originally posted by u10ajf
someone told me that Yngqie Malmsteem gave him lessons but I dont' know cause that person bull****s. Anyone know?


Malmsteen taught Slash ??! :confused:
I don't know the name of the guy who gave Slash some lessons, it would be very funny to know it was Malmsteen. (if it's true).
# 19
fendermonkey77
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11/17/2002 2:06 pm
Originally posted by chris mood
What's wrong with being a schooled musician?
Would you want to go to a Doctor that was self taught? How about a mechanic, lawyer or accountant?
Is Salvador Dali not a good artist because he attended art school?
There are more important things learned at those high priced music schools then harmony classes; such as how to communicate with other musicians, and how to listen, appreciate, and draw inspiration from variuos styles of music.


I don't think anyone is arguing that point. Infact, I bet mostwould back you up...I do...the argument is that being purely self-taught is pretty much a myth. Everyone learns some how...be it by books, school, influenced by other players and/or all of the above.
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"The pursuit of easy things makes men weak."

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# 20

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