Shoulder Ache


zollybosher
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Joined: 07/19/18
Posts: 17
zollybosher
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Joined: 07/19/18
Posts: 17
08/13/2018 5:33 pm

I think I must be doing something wrong and wonder if someone could point out or suggest what it maybe

basically, I am trying to simply fret but am having difficulty getting my fingers in the right place it all comes down to the 6th string I either catch the A below or don’t get

close enough to the fret to get the note

when it comes to the very first fret on the 6

this seems to throw me and I end up somehow with my arm at unusual angle

my thumb is straight behind the neck but I cannot seem to either hold this posostion and have to stop

I have followed the beginner videos but I am not getting it and my shoulder aches. My arm and fingers are fine. The question is what I doing wrong I am not gripping the neck but neither are the tips of my fingers on the string they are more at an angle and it’s impossble for me to reach and place my ring finger on the 6th 3rd fret holding my thumb in the middle. My finger just won’t reach and cover 1-3 with my thumb in the same position I have to move my thumb

So in all it seems my technique is all wrong. How/ can I fix this- the beginner lesson looks great holding your thumb and fingers seem to cover the frets. Alas not in my case

and it seems I have already hit my first hurdle before I even get started


# 1
Guitar Tricks Admin
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Guitar Tricks Admin
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08/13/2018 7:05 pm

Hi there,

You have to be careful here, as you don't want to cause long-term damage. When you're carrying your guitar, make sure your shoulders are relaxed.

If you haven't already, check out the different ways to hold a guitar here. This video is one of Christopher giving advice on how to hold the instrument: https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=13958&s_id=1141

Another piece of advice is that it's okay to move your thumb from the middle of the back of the neck to grab notes that are a bit more difficult to reach. Your thumb's position while grabbing a chord or playing a lick may contribute to the awkward feeling. Play around with your grips, and see what works! The important thing is to not feel tense.


If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please contact us.
# 2
manXcat
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manXcat
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08/13/2018 9:15 pm

Do you have a Go- Pro or clone? e.g. SJCAM. Even a HD webcam will do.

A posted image or uploaded short vid so we can see what you're doing vs describing would be a help to us helping you. Just the guitar body, neck & fingerboard in frame will suffice.

Also note. From your previous posts, you've just started out. If you've been hammering away with practise most days, a sore shoulder could be attributable to numerous causes from simple overuse of unaccustomed back or shoulder muscles to how you're holding the guitar possibly attributable to (poor?) posture instigated or exacerbated by your seating and leg positioning whilst playing.


# 3
zollybosher
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zollybosher
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08/15/2018 3:55 pm

Thanks for the advice. How do you upload a video , short clip?


# 4
manXcat
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manXcat
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08/15/2018 4:56 pm

Create an account on a free host site, e.g. your personal webspace or You Tube, though there are others, upload it there (follow the instructions) and provide the link in a post here, preferably hotlinked to the relevant text. Pretty much the same as linking a Flickr image etc.


# 5
zollybosher
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zollybosher
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08/15/2018 5:20 pm

Well here goes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwA6tKrf888

i am struggling with being able to hold the string down whilst not catching the strings either side. If I do manage to do this then I cannot hold it for long and I have a tendency to become tense in my arm affected by my wrist and become somewhat hunched ALL the things you are not supposed to do. I try to relax and gain the proper posture but as you can see I also have difficulty in being able to hold all 3 frets on 6 th string

Yes I am new to this - well somewhat and am a week into practicing agin @ 35mins per day. So the question is what am I doing wrong is their something that I can do to get through this? I know that their are millions of people who have gone through or are going through what I am at present and it maybe “patience” that is required OR that my approach and technique are all wrong?

If anyone would care to critique, please do, as the only way you learn is through mistakes

Thanks


# 6
fuzzb0x
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fuzzb0x
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08/16/2018 3:53 pm

Watching that video you uploaded try placing your thumb more towards the back of the neck to give your hand better stability and allow you to use the tips of your fingers to fret the strings.


# 7
zollybosher
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zollybosher
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08/16/2018 5:58 pm
Originally Posted by: fuzzb0x

Watching that video you uploaded try placing your thumb more towards the back of the neck to give your hand better stability and allow you to use the tips of your fingers to fret the strings.

Thank You for the reply it is really appreciated.

Sorry I don’t quite understand when you say “try to place your thumb towards the back

of the neck”

Do you mean drop it down or move sideways. If I move my thumb it feels as though I don’t have any control.

Today has been a bad day I seem to have lost even the very basic ability to hold and play strings 1-3 without catching other strings be it G-A my finger posture is lol wrong and it seems as though I am hitting the strings from the side rather directly on top so the flesh part of my finger is catching the other strings I try to correct it and put my finger tips on the fret but that cause problems with me either leaning or somehow pushing the neck away from my body . All in all believe it or not I am enjoying it but a bit frustrated as to not being able to unlock the key to get the correct position.

I think from an observation point this is were on line tutorial sites have the weakness.With a face to face instructor they can pick up straight away what is going wrong and how best to correct. However I admit it’s “Horses for courses” many people will take to this form of learning as has been proven. It maybe that I am one of minority? For now I intend to persevere. However as asked originally could some explain about the position of my thumb in relation to the back of the neck from the video


# 8
alffvdh
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alffvdh
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08/16/2018 7:36 pm

Can I suggest you use a guitar strap? You know, just a standard shoulder strap. It might help you stabilise your guitar. I mention this because you said you felt like you lost control of your guitar when you attempted to move your thumb position. I guess most people think you only need a strap when you are playing while standing.

I think a guitar strap can help with keeping the neck from moving away from your body, essentially adding some resistance to your thumb pressure, especially when you are starting out with guitar.

Might not help your situation, but maybe worth a try.

Good luck!


# 9
manXcat
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manXcat
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08/16/2018 9:43 pm

Thanks for the vid.

[u]The shoulder ache.[/u] Watch the GT lesson vids on A. posture, instrument and arm placement, and most importantly, B. fretting hand mechanics and C. thumb placement. It's all covered in those initial lessons of Lisa's in GF1. If you have already watched them, then you should watch them again.

You could try using a strap too, but with an acoustic, IME it's not as critical as self-awareness of the above.

Secondly, from what can be seen and heard in the vid, it's difficult to relate it to what you describe you are attempting to do in previous posts. I couldn't see you demonstrating formed chords or fluid chord changes where muting of an adjacent string has pragmatic impact. The kind of slow, seemingly uncertain fumbling placement I saw is indicative of a need to build skills competency on each lesson's objectives step by step then putting them together as instructed in a further proceeding lessons until they make a meaningful whole which in turn will build into making music. Are you skipping lessons, or just expecting too much of youself in such a short time?

That said, I spotted a couple of things which could use attention and awareness, along with more info required tech query and possible need for some 'luthier love'.

[br]1. [u]Cut your fingernails on your fretting hand[/u]. This alone can interefere with getting clean notes on a fretted string as well as inducing inconsistent inaccurate placement. I noted the length of your fingernails on thumb and pinky (4th finger), reasonably supposing the fore, index and ring finger nails are a similar length and shape. Trim them [u]very[/u] [u]very[/u] short so they don't project beyond flesh and file them so they align with the gentle curvature of your fingertip or flatter and edges are blunt and smooth not sharp. You have fleshy fingers, so achieving an easy [u]lowest pressure contact by having fingers touching at as perpendicular an angle as possible for the chord to be formed is especially important if you want to avoid inadvertently muting adjacent strings[/u]. I'll take and post a pic of mine shortly. Edit: There you go. Image hotlinked.

[br]2. [u]You will find benefit in performing simple finger co-ordination and stretching exercises at least daily.[/u] GT has many. Start with and keep it easy and simple over four frets. Don't abandon it because its "hard" or "boring". Stick with them until they become doable, if not easy. And an analogy. IME playing guitar is a bit like playing tennis or squash racquets where one has to actively mentally urge the necessary parts of the body (legs) to immediately move it back to centre court [u]after[/u] running to every shot and striking the ball contradictory to the message the mind instinctively registers of 'job done'. It requires positive action maintaining mental and physical awareness preparing to accelerate and stretch again and again to the next anticipated fall of the ball [u]until the whole process becomes a coordinated instinctive whole and unaccustomed muscles are strengthened[/u].

[br]3. How old is your guitar? [u]Do you have any dented or damaged frets?[/u] Are they level? You can check with a steel straight edge rule. [u]Is the neck relief properly adjusted?[/u] It sounded to me that besides inadvertently muted strings, you also aren't getting clean fretted notes, but I couldn't discern from the vid if the cause was your finger misapplication to the string or buzz from irregular level frets. It might behove you to have your guitar checked by a luthier?

[br]Other than that. Follow the structured coursework on GT, and don't be in a rush to move ahead. Watching a lesson isn't the doing. The military use a proven KISS instructional formula which works on even the dumbest recruit capable of passing an entry IQ rest. It must if it worked on me! DIP. Demonstrate. Imitate. Practice. It works for guitar too. Broken down, its basically what GT do here in each lesson too.


# 10
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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08/17/2018 1:33 pm

Hey & welcome to GT! Thanks for posting a video. It really helps assess the situation & allow us to help you.

Originally Posted by: zollybosher

Well here goes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwA6tKrf888

[/quote]

I can see right away that when you are playing notes on the low E string your thumb is too far on the bass string side of the neck.

Look at this video in which I explain the mechanics of fretting notes using what I can an axis of power.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=12188&s_id=605

It also looks like you might be palming the neck. Don't palm the neck. Give your fingers enough reach to get to the lower bass strings by putting your thumb in the middle of the neck. Even move it toward the other side if necessary to reach lower strings!

Also, it might help to angle the neck up toward the ceiling a bit more in order to give you better access. I can't see your wrist in that video, but it needs to have a natural curve. Also, the neck is moving around a bit as you play. That makes me think the guitar is just sitting in your lap without a strap. A strap can help stablize the guitar making it much easier to play. You don't have a "moving target" & your hands & arms don't have to do double duty: hold the guitar in place & play notes.

Your arms, hands & fingers only have one job: play notes. That's why a strap is a good idea even if you are sitting.

This could also be the cause of your shoulder pain. And tension could be adding to it. You need to make sure you are as relaxed as possible. Please check out this video on proper posture. It look like you are sitting up straight! :) But have a look to see if any of this can help.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=13958&s_id=1141

[quote=zollybosher] i am struggling with being able to hold the string down whilst not catching the strings either side.

When your fingers are interfering with adjacent strings the most likely problem is that the last knuckle of your fretting finger is not perpendicular enough to the string.

It looks like you need to focus on getting your hands around the neck so your fingers have enough access to the strings. This will happen if your thumb is more behind the neck, down toward the middle. That allows your hand to reach around the front side of the neck. Make sense?

You usually need to get that last knuckle of the fretting finger straight down into the string. As perpendicular as necessary to clear the other strings. However, remember, there are times when it is useful to be able to mute adjancent strings with your fingers! So, it depends on the context of the musical example you are working on.

This video addresses properly fretting hand technique.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10654&s_id=358

Hope this helps! Hang in there & be patient with yourself. Please ask more if necessary & best of success!


Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

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# 11

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