Pentatonic Boxes Question


brightersides.liz
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brightersides.liz
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03/24/2015 8:55 pm
Hi,

I'm just coming towards the end of the second basics course, and I'm learning a few different scales elsewhere on the website (as suggested in the scales unit).

This is probably stupid and a result of me being tired, but whilst practising the major and minor pentatonic box patterns I couldn't understand why they were exactly the same? I know the tutor says that the shapes are exactly the same whilst the scale degrees are different, but surely the major pentatonic scale is going to have a different sound to the minor one?

If someone can try and help me understand this would be great.

Thanks

Liz
# 1
JestMe
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JestMe
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03/24/2015 9:40 pm
Liz

It is confusing at first but luckily it is also helpful as once you learn one set of patterns you also know the other set of patterns.

A key point to be aware of is that even though the patterns may be the same, they are played on different frets, therefore the underlying notes are different.

In addition the "Root" note, is positioned at a different spot within the pattern.

I hope that helps.
# 2
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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03/25/2015 4:21 pm
Originally Posted by: brightersides.liz
... whilst practising the major and minor pentatonic box patterns I couldn't understand why they were exactly the same?[/quote]
It's just an observation I make to help simplify things. Look, there's only one pattern to learn at first for both major & minor pentatonic! :)

But at this stage I'm just trying to get you to see the pattern & get you to play it in order to get your fingers used to those motions.

After you learn the pattern, then you can make music with them. And this is when they will start to sound different: with different applications.
[QUOTE=brightersides.liz]
I know the tutor says that the shapes are exactly the same whilst the scale degrees are different, but surely the major pentatonic scale is going to have a different sound to the minor one?

Right. So, the short answer is: context is everything.

Anything you play, a note, scale pattern, a chord, has it's own unique sound. And even more so when you put it in a musical situation.

Simple example! Play these notes from the first pentatonic box pattern.

|--5-----------------------------------------|
|------8--5----------------------------------|
|--------------7--5--------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|

Are you playing A minor pentatonic? Or C major pentatonic? It's a trick question! It's could be either. But, you don't know until you put it in a musical situation. Until you put it in context.

So, let's add some context. Play these chords first.

C G C scale notes
|--0---3---0----5---------------------0------|
|--1---0---1--------8---5-------------1------|
|--0---0---0-----------------7---5----0------|
|--2---0---2--------------------------2------|
|--3---2---3--------------------------3------|
|------3-------------------------------------|

Now, it becomes clear you are playing in C major with those chords & it makes the notes of the scale pattern sound happy & major. So you can hear you are playing notes from the C major pentatonic scale there. Specifically, the scale degrees 6, 5, 3, 2, 1 from the C major scale.

Now, let's change the context by changing the chords (& thus the underlying harmony).

Am Dm Am scale notes
|--0---1---0----5--------------------0--------|
|--1---3---1--------8---5------------1--------|
|--2---2---2-----------------7---5---2--------|
|--2---0---2-------------------------2--------|
|--0-------0-------------------------0--------|
|---------------------------------------------|

Ah ha! Hear the difference? Changing the chords makes those exact same notes take on a sad, minor sound. So, this makes those exact same notes sound like you are playing notes from the A minor pentatonic scale there. Specifically, the scale degrees 1, 7, 5, 4, 3 from the A minor scale.

Again, it's the exact same notes both times! But changing the musical context gives you a reference point in order to be able to hear & think about which scale degrees you are using.

Make sense?
Christopher Schlegel
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# 3
brightersides.liz
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brightersides.liz
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03/25/2015 4:58 pm
Thank you both for responding.

Thanks ChristopherSchegel as well for such a detailed answer. I think your tutoring style is great, by the way, it was just me that was struggling with all the info! :) I think what I was confused about was that in the scale diagrams, the frets AND patterns appeared to be both exactly the same for the major and the minor scale? Anyway, I think my brain's still failing at at the moment but I'm going to have a proper read of your answer shortly and hopefully it'll start to make sense for me. I'll get there eventually ;)

Liz
# 4
brightersides.liz
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brightersides.liz
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03/25/2015 7:12 pm
Ok, I've carefully read your explanation and tried the examples; it does make a lot more sense to me now. I'll probably watch your introduction to the pentatonic scales again just to make it all sink in properly. Thanks a lot for helping.
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ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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03/26/2015 2:03 pm
Originally Posted by: brightersides.lizOk, I've carefully read your explanation and tried the examples; it does make a lot more sense to me now. I'll probably watch your introduction to the pentatonic scales again just to make it all sink in properly. Thanks a lot for helping.

You are welcome! The best thing you can do to keep gradually improving your understanding is to keep playing & listen to the sounds. :)
Christopher Schlegel
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matonanjin
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matonanjin
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03/28/2015 9:05 pm
Originally Posted by: JestMeLiz

It is confusing at first but luckily it is also helpful as once you learn one set of patterns you also know the other set of patterns.

A key point to be aware of is that even though the patterns may be the same, they are played on different frets, therefore the underlying notes are different.

In addition the "Root" note, is positioned at a different spot within the pattern.

I hope that helps.


Chris, you're on this forum too?!?! When do you have time to practice? lol

Guitars: 2014 PRS Santana, 2013 PRS Paul's, 2009 PRS Hollowbody I, 1972 Gibson ES-325, 2012 Fender American Standard Stratocaster,  2020 Fender Telecaster, 2001 PRS Santana SE,  2021 Martin M-36, 2021 Martin 000-15M, Seagull S6 Classic, 2012 Yamaha Pacifica  Amps: Fender Blues Junior III, Boss Eband JS-10,  Line 6 POD HD500X, Quilter Microblock 45 w/homemade 12" cab.

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JestMe
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JestMe
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03/29/2015 2:11 am
Ron!!!

You are a busy guy as well. LOL

Maybe this is why I don't get enough time to practice!

Hope all is well!
# 8
matonanjin
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matonanjin
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03/30/2015 1:25 am
Chris, it's weird. I haven't actually been on this forum for over a year. Then I got a notice that someone had posted to this thread! Don't ask me why.

Guitars: 2014 PRS Santana, 2013 PRS Paul's, 2009 PRS Hollowbody I, 1972 Gibson ES-325, 2012 Fender American Standard Stratocaster,  2020 Fender Telecaster, 2001 PRS Santana SE,  2021 Martin M-36, 2021 Martin 000-15M, Seagull S6 Classic, 2012 Yamaha Pacifica  Amps: Fender Blues Junior III, Boss Eband JS-10,  Line 6 POD HD500X, Quilter Microblock 45 w/homemade 12" cab.

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JestMe
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JestMe
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03/30/2015 1:53 am
Ron - That is weird... nice to bump into you again though! Man you get around! ;-) Hope all is well.
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ThorfinnFrisken
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ThorfinnFrisken
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05/07/2015 7:40 pm
wow...and CLICK! Thanks Chris!
------------------------------------
Learning guitar, one chord at a time...
# 11
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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05/08/2015 2:13 pm
Originally Posted by: ThorfinnFriskenwow...and CLICK! Thanks Chris!

You're welcome!
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