skill level on songs are not marked properly!

It is really frustrating when the skill level marked on the song list isn't even close to the correct level. I spend way too much time looking for songs suited to my level because the list is not marked properly.
For example - the song "you send me" is marked with 3 guitars - which would be intermediate, but it's a beginner song.
The song "Foolish Games" is also marked 3 guitars - which is a fairly advanced song with a travis pick and barr chords. Why are they marked the same?
"keep on truckin mama" is marked 4 guitars but it's at the same level and Foolish Games.
...I know I am probably missing out on lots of good songs that I can play because they are not marked properly and can't possible go through every single song.

Agreed. I'm by no means an advanced guitarist. In fact, I would barely even call myself intermediate. Regardless, I'm doing a lot of progress on Boston's "Peace Of Mind", which is marked with 5 guitars! I'm not having thar much trouble with the riffs, actually, since most of it is fairly cliché for that time (the 70's), as Mike Olekshy puts it. At the same time, there are plenty of songs marked with 2 or 3 guitars that are seemingly impossible for me at my current skill level. "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" by Poison, for example, is marked as difficulty 2, but I find the difficulty 5 song, "Peace Of Mind", to be easier, and yes, I've tried to learn both, but put "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" on hold due to the difficulty with the electric guitar part.

Rhythm and strum patterns, chords (open, barre, caged, voicings...), riffs, timing, lead playing, picking (finger picking, alternate picking...), embellishments, tone control, and so much more go into a song. Each can have their own degree of difficulty and that difficulty can be/is different for each player.

I imagine the difficulty rating on the songs are the instructor's or group of instructors opinion of the complexity of the song. But one factor that the ratings can't address is your and my capability when we choose to sit down and learn a song. What is easy for you may be hard for me. I might be able to handle the strumming and rhythm of all the chords but be crap on the riffs. You might handle riffs but can't do a barre chord. Lots of variables...and a single icon of some number of guitars is not gonna address them all for all players.

Moreover, I think there's some weakness in the concept of searching for songs on the basis of someone's/anyone's opinion of the difficulty of each of the songs listed. If I looked for songs that match what I think my level of chops is there's a whole bunch of songs I'd miss and wouldn't be playing now. Instead, I always start a new song because I like the song. But all that is an opinion too. :D

Originally Posted by: john of MTRhythm and strum patterns, chords (open, barre, caged, voicings...), riffs, timing, lead playing, picking (finger picking, alternate picking...), embellishments, tone control, and so much more go into a song. Each can have their own degree of difficulty and that difficulty can be/is different for each player.

I imagine the difficulty rating on the songs are the instructor's or group of instructors opinion of the complexity of the song. But one factor that the ratings can't address is your and my capability when we choose to sit down and learn a song. What is easy for you may be hard for me. I might be able to handle the strumming and rhythm of all the chords but be crap on the riffs. You might handle riffs but can't do a barre chord. Lots of variables...and a single icon of some number of guitars is not gonna address them all for all players.

Moreover, I think there's some weakness in the concept of searching for songs on the basis of someone's/anyone's opinion of the difficulty of each of the songs listed. If I looked for songs that match what I think my level of chops is there's a whole bunch of songs I'd miss and wouldn't be playing now. Instead, I always start a new song because I like the song. But all that is an opinion too. :D

John hit the nail on the head even with the nail moving..

Originally Posted by: tracy mcconkeyIt is really frustrating when the skill level marked on the song list isn't even close to the correct level. I spend way too much time looking for songs suited to my level because the list is not marked properly.

Sorry for the frustration this is causing! The difficulty ratings are sometimes due to the easiest part of the song & sometimes the hardest part. And it's also variable according to the style. We are always working to improve the site. So, like all criticisms, we'll give these comments serious consideration going forward!

Some acoustic songs have "harder" ratings because fingerpicking parts are more difficult to people that enjoy that style. Some rock songs have "easier" ratings because people that enjoy that style are used to those licks & style.

There are sometimes different standards used to label different styles & different songs. Much like different guitar students or players have a different set of skills they personally consider "difficult".

In short, it's difficult to assign difficulty ratings objectively across the board for all songs & all players. :)

On the plus side, this forum exists in order to help users find songs or lessons or answer questions! If you need help finding a song that matches your interests or current skill level, please ask!

Hope this helps. Best of success with your guitar learning & playing!

Originally Posted by: john of MTMoreover, I think there's some weakness in the concept of searching for songs on the basis of someone's/anyone's opinion of the difficulty of each of the songs listed. If I looked for songs that match what I think my level of chops is there's a whole bunch of songs I'd miss and wouldn't be playing now. Instead, I always start a new song because I like the song. But all that is an opinion too. :D

Exactly!!

I'll use the difficulty level as a rough guide. I've learned not to be scared away by 4 and 5 guitar songs. I also don't expect 3 guitar songs to always be a breeze.

I first pick a song because I like it and want to learn it. I'll watch key parts of the video and decide for myself if I'm ready or not.

What I think should be done (and I've suggested this before) is to have a list for each song of key skills that are required. A song may feature lots of bends. To some players, that could be a real slog since they haven't mastered the skill yet. Others may have no trouble.

Short of that, let your interest in a song be your initial guide. Once you dive in, decide for yourself what the difficulty level is. If it's a song you really like, you'll be more inclinded to meet a challenge head on!

Originally Posted by: maggior...
What I think should be done (and I've suggested this before) is to have a list for each song of key skills that are required. A song may feature lots of bends. To some players, that could be a real slog since they haven't mastered the skill yet. Others may have no trouble....

That's a great suggestion. Maybe that list could reference other GT pages that address those skills like bends and other embellishments.

Originally Posted by: john of MTThat's a great suggestion. Maybe that list could reference other GT pages that address those skills like bends and other embellishments.

YES! Maybe even cross link it so when you've completed a lesson on a technique, you can find songs that use it.

I'm sure it would be a lot of work, but it would really add value IMO to the vast song catalog.

Originally Posted by: maggior
What I think should be done (and I've suggested this before) is to have a list for each song of key skills that are required. A song may feature lots of bends. To some players, that could be a real slog since they haven't mastered the skill yet.

Good suggestion. We've tried to address that with the intro video of each song tutorial. But sometimes it isn't as comprehensive as it could be. Other times the intro lesson page text has some of that info.

Thanks for your input & ideas, guys!

In that case Christopher, I'm asking!
....I have a lot of trouble finding a good song on this site for acoustic players (level three-ish). most seem like drippy love songs or country. I would like something more philosophical that's still fun to sing. Only one I found so far is dust in the wind. Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegelSorry for the frustration this is causing! The difficulty ratings are sometimes due to the easiest part of the song & sometimes the hardest part. And it's also variable according to the style. We are always working to improve the site. So, like all criticisms, we'll give these comments serious consideration going forward!

Some acoustic songs have "harder" ratings because fingerpicking parts are more difficult to people that enjoy that style. Some rock songs have "easier" ratings because people that enjoy that style are used to those licks & style.

There are sometimes different standards used to label different styles & different songs. Much like different guitar students or players have a different set of skills they personally consider "difficult".

In short, it's difficult to assign difficulty ratings objectively across the board for all songs & all players. :)

On the plus side, this forum exists in order to help users find songs or lessons or answer questions! If you need help finding a song that matches your interests or current skill level, please ask!

Hope this helps. Best of success with your guitar learning & playing!

I'd recommend just taking a look at a song, watch the video and decide if it's within your skill level to learn. I'm a fairly advanced guitar player but suck at finger picking and playing with a slide. There are some beginners who can do those things better than me. However, I can play the fastest of solo's relatively easily. Everyone's different....I can see why it's difficult for the instructors to choose a rating.

Jeff

Originally Posted by: tracy mcconkeyIn that case Christopher, I'm asking![/quote]
Wow, I completely missed this until now! Sorry for the delayed reply. :)
[QUOTE=tracy mcconkey]
....I have a lot of trouble finding a good song on this site for acoustic players (level three-ish). most seem like drippy love songs or country. I would like something more philosophical that's still fun to sing. Only one I found so far is dust in the wind. Any suggestions?

Caren & Lisa have the largest collection of acoustic material.

On Caren's page you'll find great tunes like 'Blackbird', 'Yesterday', 'Hey Jude', 'Let It Be', 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone?', 'You Send Me', 'Cupid'. Really wonderful classic songs!

https://www.guitartricks.com/instructor.php?input=1796810

Lisa also has a great list of tunes like 'I Got A Name', 'Wild World', 'Baby, I Love Your Way'. More classics!

https://www.guitartricks.com/instructor.php?input=311296

Hope this helps! Have fun!