A dorian

Ok im getting frustrated ,about the A Dorian scale mod.i have a scale poster and it shows the scale ,6 string , 578/5 string, 579 /4string 579/3 string 57/2 string 578/ 1 string 5/..... Now i been practicing that to see on the gt scale finder way different,yes i know there are i think four or fife patterns and tried them all.thank you if anyone can help me out.

I think the difference between your poster and the GT Scale Finder is that the GT Scale finder simply moves the notes on the 9th fret one string down to the 4th fret on the higher-pitched string (from A string 9th fret to D string 4th fret). It makes the exact same notes, it just depends on who visualizes the scale.

Hope this helps a bit :)

Originally Posted by: axe2Ok im getting frustrated ,about the A Dorian scale mod.

Modes & scale practice can get frustrating! Exactly what are you frustrated about? Just that there are different possible patterns?

Remember that since you can play the same exact note in more than one place on the guitar there are almost always going to be more than one way to play any given scale.

Further, if you are starting any type of three string per note pattern on the root note, then there are at least three different positions you can use.

1. Index finger in lowest position on the root.
2. Middle or ring finger in middle position on the root.
3. Pinky finger in highest position on the root..

I cover this in depth in these tutorials on major & minor scale patterns.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=453
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=887

For example, A dorian can be played like this.

E ||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
B ||---|---|---|---|---|---|-6-|-7-|---|-1-|
G ||---|---|---|---|-3-|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|
D ||---|---|---|---|-7-|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|
A ||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|
E ||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|-2-|-3-|---|---|

Or like this.

E ||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
B ||---|---|---|---|-5-|---|-6-|-7-|---|---|
G ||---|---|---|-2-|-3-|---|-4-|---|---|---|
D ||---|---|---|-6-|-7-|---|-1-|---|---|---|
A ||---|---|-3-|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|---|---|
E ||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|---|---|

Or like this.

E ||---|---|-7-|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
B ||---|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|-6-|---|---|---|
G ||---|-1-|---|-2-|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|
D ||---|-5-|---|-6-|-7-|---|---|---|---|---|
A ||---|-2-|-3-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
E ||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|

These all contain the same notes. Ultimately, you should be aware of this & practice all of them. Each one has its own pros & cons depending upon what you need to do with them when you are playing music. Some patterns are easier for some groups of notes & some for others. Each one sounds a little different because certain notes are played on wound strings versus unwound, because the string length is longer versus shorter resulting in a slightly different timbre.

For example, let's look at this Dorian lick.

|--8-7-5-------------------------------------|
|---------8-7-5------------------------------|
|----------------7-5-4-----------------------|
|-----------------------7-5-4----------------|
|------------------------------7-------------|
|--------------------------------------------|

There's a lot of similar shaped patterns (symmetry!) in the E & B strings, then the G & D strings making it easier to play those notes.

But, if you played those same exact notes like this, it might be a little more tricky & inconvenient.

|--8-7-5-------------------------------------|
|---------8-7-5------------------------------|
|----------------7-5-------------------------|
|---------------------9-7-5------------------|
|----------------------------9-7-------------|
|--------------------------------------------|

You'll notice there is a different sound to playing the B note on the unwound G string versus the wound D string. So, there is a slightly different timbre or tone. But it is the same exact note in both places. Same for the F#, it might sound a little more bassy because playing it on the A string instead of the D string puts it on a thicker string & gives it a little less string to ring on.

You might choose the first pattern because it's easier to play & it sounds right for the piece of music you are currently playing. You might choose the second pattern because it works better for the sound you are after in a different piece of music!

Hope this helps!

Iam not frustrated with gt at all,u guys rock, im frustrated on my learning ability.i just caint get the modes down, are they a extension of a scale, or a scale of its own,or both.thanks for your help everyone.big thanks too chris s. Ok i get it know,it makes alot of sence now , so they all in the key of A DORIAN, choose the pattern that will work best for what your playing. Thats alot of patterns too learn,better get started .i think what the real problem here is im walking before crawling.need to get back to basics.ty

Learning all notes on fretboard would be a good starting point.

Originally Posted by: axe2... im frustrated on my learning ability.[/quote]
It takes time! You need to be a little more patient with yourself. :)

Modes have two overall purposes. You can use them in 2 separate, but complimentary ways:

1. Positions of the major scale. So you can use the modes simply as patterns that cover the entire fretboard and use them to play in one scale in any position. Obviously this is a very powerful visual aid when you are trying to "unlock" the fretboard and move around it everywhere at will.

2. For the same reason you use different chords or scales: to get different sounds.
[QUOTE=axe2]
Thats alot of patterns too learn,better get started .i think what the real problem here is im walking before crawling.need to get back to basics.ty

It is a whole lot of stuff to learn. Over the years I seen lots of students make the mistake of trying to learn & shred them all right now, today! :) It just doesn't work like that!

Learn, practice & play a little bit each day. Give your mind & fingers time to acclimate to a little bit at a time. Modes, scales, guitar are all things we can only learn gradually over a long period of time. Every day I still learn a little bit more about music. I see a little more about how things are interconnected. I make a connect I never did before!

Take your time, slow & steady. Just don't stop. Keep going. :)

Originally Posted by: axe2Learning all notes on fretboard would be a good starting point.

This approach will most likely not work. Everybody is different, but I only remember things well when I understand them in some sort of context. By learning and understanding scales, you'll have this context and learn all of the notes on the fretboard.

Something else that helps is noticing patterns. Our brains try to put everything into patterns, so accepting this and leveraging this will make things easier.

For instance, you learn the notes on the bass E string. Then you notice a pattern where if you skip a string and move up 2 frets, you have the same note up an octave. So, an open E string is E. Move over to the D string and up 2 frets, you have an E again. So you get 2 for one by memorizing the notes on the 6th string.

So, you learn the E and A shape barre chords. In doing this, you learn the notes up and down the E and A strings. Then you have the pattern I mentioned above, and now you know the D and G strings. You only have 2 strings left :-).

Now because of the way the guitar is tuned, you have an exception around the G string.

Oh, and one other thing...you only need to learn up to the 12th fret because everything repeats from there to the top of the fretboard.

Full of gratitude too all for helping me out on this matter.i agree i need more patience on my guitar and my self.i can get frustrated if i dont pick up what im learning right away.,good advice i need too slow way down and learn something each day,rather all in one day...thanks guys.

Originally Posted by: axe2Full of gratitude too all for helping me out on this matter.i agree i need more patience on my guitar and my self.i can get frustrated if i dont pick up what im learning right away.,good advice i need too slow way down and learn something each day,rather all in one day...thanks guys.

I hear ya! I wish I could just learn it all at once!

Enjoy the journey and take time to enjoy what you accomplish along the way. This is how I keep myself from throwing in the towel and giving up. Progress, no matter how small, is still progress.

Very true,I went through all three patterns now I see they all have the same notes in order.thats one thing I wasent understanding......very cool.and my new moto is this,don't start a lesson unless you are prepared too finish it then practice it,to at least a point were you won't forget it,when you move on to the next one.......that was one of big problems I had,as soon as it got alitte rough I would move on to something else ......I caint thank maj,and Chris enough .its like a light bulb turnin on.bam.axe2......sorry for spelling ur name wrong, Maggior

Hey Axe2,

I was very frustrated with this untill i found a cool and ''easy'' method for the modes. I see it in a slightly different way. Think of it this way.
The 7 modes in order are:
1. Ionian
2. Dorian
3. Phrygian
4. Lydian
5. Mixolydian
6. Aolian
7. Locrian

Ionian mode is basically the Major scale. And here is the important thing.
All the modes can use the same pattern of notes (the MAJOR SCALE is basically all the modes, just played in different places) Let me give you an example.
If you are in the key of E and you wonna play the first mode Ionian which is the major scale: lets say you start on the 12 fret with a 3 note per string pattern. Im sure you know that one.
in THAT mode the rote note is the first note your playing, in that pattern. Now here is the thing. If you move the pattern back 2 half notes, and start it on D on 10 fret. Then you are playing a Dorian mode in E. Reason:
When you moved the pattern back, the pattern of notes stayed the same, but the rote note E is now placed on the second note in the pattern (And Dorian is the 2 mode in order, you see?)

Lets move on to phrygian (3 mode) short explained:
Play the 3 note per string or any other major scale pattern, so that the third note of the scale is an E note. Can you figure that one out?

Try out the C major scale. Nomatter how you play it, The third note of the C major scale is an E..... So major scale in C, is also called the E Phrygian mode. Phrygian mode is the THIRD mode in order? Is this making sense? :)

This is all about where you place the rote note with the same pattern, and you move it around according to that. That is how i learned it atleast.
The modes are all just the major scale placed in different places!!!!

Thanks that makes alot of sence.music theory was something i never got into,i always thought it was a waist of my time.boy was i so wrong.i now think its most important to learn theory.and a funny think there are many great lplayers that never studied theory.one is dave navvro from janes addiction.i heard him say he can play something/anything,but would not be able to tell ya what he.s playing.now i started playing back in the mid eighties for two years with just a hand full of lessons,but i practiced at leat four hours everyday.then i stoped playing ,and about one year ago i started playin again and i got stuck on you tube videos.untill i found GT.JUST ALITTLE BIO.

Axe, there's a really great book by Tom Kolb called Modes for Guitar that I'd recommend. He gives a simple explanation of what modes are, and then describes each mode and how its often used. The book comes with a really helpful CD that has riffs to give you ideas for using modes, along with a backing track for each mode. I think one of the most important things to understand is that using modes involves a lot of ear training. Its when you start playing different modes over appropriate chords that you really hear the distinct quality of each mode, and start developing a feel for how they sound. So make sure you have a good, easy-to-use playback system to practice with. It also helps a lot if you already know how to play the major scale across the entire fretboard in different keys, because as Caponi has already suggested, you can use those same patterns when playing modes (something Kolb explains clearly in the book).

Good luck!