Of Identity and Style

I was doing some work while hanging out with a friend. Then a song came on and I asked, is that the Grateful Dead? She looked and low and behold, it was. She asked how I knew especially since I've never heard that song before and I told her that some people musically establish identity on their instrument.
Most people can know BB King's signature vibrato, KWS, SRV, Grateful Dead, Morello, Slash, Hendrix, Van Halen, Gilmour... the list goes on but not that long.

My question then is identity formed from style? Or is it many more elements? Is it sound? Is it licks they made their own? What's everyone's take on this?

In my opinion you just answered yourself, it is just identity. They just express themselves with their feelings, hopes and fears using a guitar.

Carmine

Originally Posted by: carminemarottaIn my opinion you just answered yourself, it is just identity. They just express themselves with their feelings, hopes and fears using a guitar.

Carmine

Hi Carmine...

You're right... it seems like I answered myself put that way but I was merely throwing out elements to whoever. I know that identity is mysterious. In music, in life. That's why the list is so short comparatively. Especially on an instrument.

Maybe I should have asked... how are you establishing identity on your instrument. What's important to you?

Thanks for the reply!

Your question is as fascinating as difficult to answer.
Music is difficult to understand since it is no semantic while we are use to semantic language to express our ideas and feelings.
I guess you (we) should use any techniques that let us freely exprees ourselves. In my ideal world, the music doesn't come from the brain neither from the freatboard but the heart.

Carmine

Originally Posted by: TravisWright
My question then is identity formed from style?

The unique sound, style or musical identity of any given guitarist consists of their approach to three board categories:

1. Physical playing technique (their physical "touch").
2. Note choice (their preferred scales, chords, voicings, licks).
3. Gear (their guitar, amp, effects, settings, & in some cases studio production).

Originally Posted by: carminemarottaYour question is as fascinating as difficult to answer.
Music is difficult to understand since it is no semantic while we are use to semantic language to express our ideas and feelings.
I guess you (we) should use any techniques that let us freely exprees ourselves. In my ideal world, the music doesn't come from the brain neither from the freatboard but the heart.

Carmine

I couldn't agree more... it's no good if it doesn't come from the heart. I've seen a girl play silence a crowd with merely a C,D, n G. I've seen wizards not even move anyone.

The common argument I've heard over the years by soooooooo many is... that you 'gotta be born with it'.... 'stars are born, not made' ... 'something in their soul is different' ...

I can see how this is true and not. I can see how western mentality has taken this to an extreme. I think it's not what it seems most of the time but perception can often overtake reality.

In my ideal world, Carmine, yes... the ones who sing from their soul are the ones who are free.

There's exceptions to everything I've ever thought possible. That's why I am asking this question and wondering what others are thinking. Especially in today's world of music.

Originally Posted by: CSchlegelThe unique sound, style or musical identity of any given guitarist consists of their approach to three board categories:

1. Physical playing technique (their physical "touch").
2. Note choice (their preferred scales, chords, voicings, licks).
3. Gear (their guitar, amp, effects, settings, & in some cases studio production).

I couldn't agree more that all this is apart of it... but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it. If it just came down to this, which a lot of guitarists do at the beginning.. they seek out strange scales that 'speak' to them, get gear, modify it, do different combinations, develop different ways to play or better technique, larger lick vocal, blah blah... seems like there's maybe something more.

It's like when the science world really revealed that MJ actually does 'hang time' and that although you can teach pro athletes to hang, it's better if they just do it. Strengths and weaknesses.

Playing a style is about being both unique and having quality. Having quality alone is not enough and neither is only being unique. When you combine them, you have the perfect formula for playing a style that gives you a distinguishing identity. The best way to achieve this is to be yourself but also make yourself presentable.

Travis
Have you read the two books written by Philip Toshio Sudo? Regardless of anyone can think of them, I am sure they can help to answer your question.

Regards
Carmine
Ps by the way of books, can I suggest you another? Talking guitars, by David Mead

Everything you did or do in life affects every aspect of your music (and everything else actually).

Lets say someone as been a fisher man and worked is butt off since very young.
There's a good chance that the fellaw as very strong hands and maybe less agile and precise then a magician that make cards and coins trick for a living.

Quick comparison - Stevie Ray Vaughan's big paws and Eric Johnson's tiny precise fingers. Both very good but very different.


Someone who is arrogant and aggressive might sound "punchy" and "bangy" .

Someone who is quiet, calm and patient might sound a bit more mellower and reserved.


Quick comparison - Ted Nugent's and George Harrison's.
One is punchy and it sounds like that in his music and the other was more zen and quiet and it also shows in his music.


Now there's a hell lot more to what makes someone sound one way or another then what I just mentionned and it's a lot more "complicated" then that but I think it's a major factor.

[QUOTE
Now there's a hell lot more to what makes someone sound one way or another then what I just mentionned and it's a lot more "complicated" then that but I think it's a major factor.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. That's why I wanted to see everyone's thoughts. All are right... I have my own ideas as well... nature and nurture.. both play their part. The whole point of identity in life is being who you really are, not someone else. Simple and complex. Bruce Lee even said that the whole point of Jeet Kun Do is not to become like him but to fight the way you were meant to fight.

Originally Posted by: carminemarottaTravis
Have you read the two books written by Philip Toshio Sudo? Regardless of anyone can think of them, I am sure they can help to answer your question.

Regards
Carmine
Ps by the way of books, can I suggest you another? Talking guitars, by David Mead

Thanks... will check them out when I get TIME! Lol...

Originally Posted by: Elliott JeffriesPlaying a style is about being both unique and having quality. Having quality alone is not enough and neither is only being unique. When you combine them, you have the perfect formula for playing a style that gives you a distinguishing identity. The best way to achieve this is to be yourself but also make yourself presentable.

Agreed.. both are important. Still wonder about other factors... the things we don't like to admit might play their part as well.

Things we don't like to admit, or things we might not think of? I've noticed that I can identify with styles based on other perceptions besides the music. I will grow to like an artist if I like the personality or image that's projected, even if I don't like the music initially. I've grown to like music I didn't like when I first heard it through repeated listening. This kind of appreciation and style identification is a little more complex than talking about the kind of music we already like.

What it comes down to I think is playing music is just another form of self expression. You can recognize somebody's writing by their penmanship or their sentence structure and word choice. You may recognize them by their speaking voice or their phrasing. Music is the same.

What's unique and amazing to me regarding technique and style with the guitar is that you can recognize a player just from a single note. Everything that has been mentioned in this thread (physical feel, equipment, personality, etc.) can come together in one single note (OK, maybe 2 technically if it incorporates a bend or crazy vibrato). Players like SRV, David Gilmour, BB King come to mind.

Originally Posted by: Elliott JeffriesThings we don't like to admit, or things we might not think of? I've noticed that I can identify with styles based on other perceptions besides the music. I will grow to like an artist if I like the personality or image that's projected, even if I don't like the music initially. I've grown to like music I didn't like when I first heard it through repeated listening. This kind of appreciation and style identification is a little more complex than talking about the kind of music we already like.

Perception is key Elliot. But most people, musicians or not, can recognize SRV playing within his genre or not, on songs they know or have never heard of. Identity, in this manner, transcends perception and whether or not you like the artist or not.

Born vs. Made? Many would say it's born. We love our geniuses and heroes. SRV, like Vai, spent more hours practicing than most pros ever will doing both practicing and performing. That's something we may not like to admit or even know. Also... when it comes down to actually practicing the right way for something, it can be hard among most musicians to even agree that really there is a right way. Mindless noodling or 15 min of focused practice. There's so many other elements possibly that are small, or I don't like to admit that could be part of it. That's why I called the brainstorm.

Originally Posted by: maggior

What's unique and amazing to me regarding technique and style with the guitar is that you can recognize a player just from a single note. Everything that has been mentioned in this thread (physical feel, equipment, personality, etc.) can come together in one single note (OK, maybe 2 technically if it incorporates a bend or crazy vibrato). Players like SRV, David Gilmour, BB King come to mind.

Identity. We are all unique, like everyone else. That's the maddening part. Haha. I wonder about the method. Yes, I mentioned all three in the original post! Love them ALL!!

May I ask you, then what's most important or what do you think contributes besides the gear, hands, and techniques? How? I understand this is similar to asking how do you become yourself, but my aim was to see from many points of view, both for what's possible and impossible. We define life with what things are and AREN'T. Or at least, get a better view. Would love to hear more Maggior

So this is timely:
http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39566

@TravisWrite - One could probably write a dissertation on the topic :-). The post above (which I haven't read all of the way through yet) hits this head on.

What else contributes? Just throwing things out there... your current mood, your life experiences to that point, the impact of the people around you have on you. Look at Miles Davis' life and how his musical style changed and varied throughout his career. He was hugely influenced by the people he surrounded himself with.

Originally Posted by: maggiorSo this is timely:
http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39566

@TravisWrite - One could probably write a dissertation on the topic :-). The post above (which I haven't read all of the way through yet) hits this head on.

What else contributes? Just throwing things out there... your current mood, your life experiences to that point, the impact of the people around you have on you. Look at Miles Davis' life and how his musical style changed and varied throughout his career. He was hugely influenced by the people he surrounded himself with.

Thanks Maggior... great thread by wildwoman. Great insight. Love Miles. Blue in Green remains my favorite. Coltrane is in your library too I take it? Anyways, the road to become ourselves in life, in music, is quite the undertaking if you the person even cares. Funny how it goes. Dig your style Magg.

Originally Posted by: TravisWrightThanks Maggior... great thread by wildwoman. Great insight. Love Miles. Blue in Green remains my favorite. Coltrane is in your library too I take it? Anyways, the road to become ourselves in life, in music, is quite the undertaking if you the person even cares. Funny how it goes. Dig your style Magg.

How could I love Miles and not Trane!?!? :-). Yes, Coltrane is in my collection too. "Giant Steps" and "Blue Trane" stand out for me.

"Kind of Blue" is a recording I just cannot tire of. The groove on some of those tracks is just amazing. Bill Evans is another fave of mine in the Jazz genre.

I've read over Wildwoman's post and of course she's hit any points I brought up in a much more eloquent fashion!

I'm not sure I understand your point "...is quite the undertaking if you the person even cares." One could say you become yourself just by existing, you can't help it. However, should you care to direct it or care to be aware of what you've become, you can but it takes some effort. Is that what you are saying?

Wow, I'm getting way over my head with this philosophical stuff :-).