Guys this means alot to me

Hey there i wonna share my thoughts here, i hope somebody will listen and give me advice.

Here i am, in my 5'th year of playing. I have learned alot in these 5 years as some of you may know. But there is one crucial thing that is holding me back. and thats my solo style.
I have totally defined thoughts about how they shall sound when i play. I almost always improvise my solos, and people think they are pretty good. But im so selfcritical that i never get satisfied with it, i can't get enough.

Im the one playing in this video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh379kD_lDE

When there is no music, and i play with myself, i can pretty much play these kinds of things without thinking too much about it. But when i have to play these kinds of things in a proper solo i feel that what i do is wrong. I don't feel i get the timing right, i just don't feel that i can pull it off in a solo even though i played those fast licks so much in my few years of playing. I don't know if i can actually do them... Others like when i do it. So i don't know if im actually pulling it off. I just don't feel like that.
But then sometimes for brief moments it actually feel like it's fitting in, but ofcourse... Thats mostly when i play Slash's songs (i know you know i like him...) Then i think they fit in pretty nicely.

Lastly i think you shall hear what i want to achieve for myself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNXRpDc_RRA

Listen to 2:44, thats the kind of licks im talking about. That acceleration of notes that Slash is master at. The barrage of notes then again start at 3:44 and continues for the rest of the track, have a listen to get the understanding of what i want. I really wonna be able to do that :confused:

Thats all folks, i hope somebody will guide me towards the goal

Hi Caponi14 -

I don't think any player is completely happy with their level of playing. It's human nature - you attain something and after a brief feeling of accomplishment, you find yourself wanting more. This is a good thing since it will keep the fire burning that keeps you going.

You should read this article and thread. You may get some insight:
http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38206&page=1&pp=7

Tonight I'll check out your videos. However, just based on what you said, I think you need to let up on yourself. You say "others like what I do...". That's AWESOME!!!! And that's HUGE! Certainly you want to continue to improve and become more satisfied with your playing, but don't minimize the impact of your playing on others. I'll bet that if you play more in front of an audience and become less critical of yourself, you'll find you play just as well in that setting as you do by yourself.

The times that I've played with a group, I find myself focusing more on the music we are making as a whole. I remember jamming to Roadhouse Blues with some friends at a party. Unexpectedly, the moment came where my friend points at me to take a solo. Was it the most brilliant solo I could have played??? No WAY! However, it was awesome!! I found myself getting caught up in the rythm and just going with it. It was an incredible feeling and experience - very sureal. When I played in our church choir, our combined sound was just awesome. Songs I would play by myself sounded good, but when we all got together, it was on a whole new level. I would beat myself up about my playing and get frustrated. Once I eased up on myself and concentrated on the music we were making as a whole, I enjoyed it much more. As a consequence, my playing improved too.

Also, it took Slash more that 5 years to be able to play those blistering runs I'm sure. If you keep at it, it will come. Also remember that there is more to it than speed. I like shredders...don't get me wrong. I'd love to be able to shred one day too :-). But there is so much inbetween that can be very rewarding. To my ear, shredders get boring after a while. That's why I never got into Malmsteen. Some of Joe Satriani's best work to me are the melodic parts before he's kicked in the afterburners.

Hopefully you get something from this. When I get down on myself for my own playing, I'll have to come back and read this for myself :-)

Originally Posted by: caponi14But there is one crucial thing that is holding me back. and thats my solo style.
...
When there is no music, and i play with myself, i can pretty much play these kinds of things without thinking too much about it. But when i have to play these kinds of things in a proper solo i feel that what i do is wrong.

You've got some good chops! Congrats. The problem you are describing is one that all aspiring guitarists have: staying in rhythm.

All the speed & notes in the world mean nothing, unless you are making music with them. And music has one key characteristic: melody.

A melody is a series of notes played in a specific rhythm that makes a complete statement. It doesn't matter how fast or slow the notes are or the rhythm is. What matters is making them sound musical.

Making slow or fast licks sound musical means making little melodies, or clearly phrased statements.

I saw an old instructional video with Al DiMeola in which he made the point that no matter how fast, slow, simple or complex you are playing a solo, you should be able to tap your foot & be able to know where the steady beat is all the time. If you can't, then you are not in control of your playing & it's going to sound and feel disjointed or unmusical.

This isn't the original video I saw, but he makes the same point at around 3:30 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ4FZ80Qdd8

Listen to the whole thing to get his point.

I also address the issue of phrasing your soloing licks in this GT Channel episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tyqui6BTQ4

Most people will agree that blues players (SRV, BB King, Joe B.) sound very musical because even though they mostly use simple blues licks, they turn those simple licks into beautiful sounding musical phrases & statements.

This is also why shredder guys like EVH, Malmsteen, Paul Gilbert are so good. Even though they are playing extremely fast, they are still being musical.

The bottom line is that shredding versus playing slow licks is just a matter of personal taste. Regardless of how fast or slow you play, you must play rhythmically in time by phrasing your licks into melodic statements in order to play music & not just a bunch of random notes that aren't connected to anything else.

Hope this helps. Best of success!

Holy crap, Christopher is right - you've got some great chops there! I'm jealous! :-). You've got some great tools to work with, that's for sure!

Christopher's tutorials are very good. Anders has some good ones on phrasing too. Anders focuses on a blues context, but the concepts still apply to any style of improvisation.

I'm in a similar situation as yours, though my chops aren't where yours are yet. I've been focusing on phrasing and it's been quite rewarding. I'm finding that speed is coming along for the ride without even focusing on it. Focusing on phrasing may not be as boring as you might think.

Something I've been doing that has been helping me is listening to the players I like and admire with a critical ear - mostly Jimmy Page and Joe Bonamassa at the moment. I listen to their solos and think about what Christopher and Anders have to say in their phrasing tutorials. I also try to analyze what about the solo that appeals to me and makes it "cool". It gives me context to work with.

You might also want to check out the song library here and learn some songs from beginning to end. Improvising is cool and fun, but it's great to be able to play something that other people can recognize.

Thanks guys, really hard food for thought. I understand what you are saying.
It's just. I don't really know how i can get down the rythm parts on those parts i like. For example in that video with Slash that i linked. I can play those parts. But when music then comes on, something just goes wrong i think, im not sure. But how can i really focus on getting it right? Just play it alot of times untill it sounds right to me?
Cause i don't really think i have rythm problems. People tell me a have really great feeling. Also in my solos they say.. I always tap my foot, or nod my head to the music. It's just that kind of ''fast acceleration of notes'' that Slash does that really sounds so good to me, and i want it.
Do you know what i mean. Listen to the licks in the Slash video if you don't

I understand where you wonna go with this rythm thing, and i totally understand the rythmic features going on in music like Paul Gilbert and Malmsteen. It is very tight and rythmic, but it's not really that im aiming at. That would not be hard for me to understand and learn if i wanted.

Have a listen to this perfect example aswell, thats the thing im talking about, to me the solo does not really sound totally in rythm (listen to the constant acceleration of notes when he plays fast, there is alot of thrills in there), but for some reason it's the thing i like about him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZnXjWfDi8

I hope you understand and maybe even light me up a little more on this topic.

To add to Chris' really well explained idea, it just seems like you are playing licks but not marrying them to rhythm. I was a noodler for a number of years and people said I could play well but I hadn't played with a band. I remember one of the guys (and guitar guru) at the local store said: "It's different when you actually play with someone"

So true.

I've focused on recording lately and always start with a drum basis and bass groove. i have it planned in my head, All other parts follow that. I have learned to play within the groove.

That, I think, is the key.

Gotta learn to feel the pocket. I know I've mentioned that some of the old acts (as Chris mentioned, Skynyrd) do this so well. You have to start with falling in to those grooves and lead/note placement in those sections before branching out to the stuff I saw in the video.

You are running before you learned how to walk right. Stop trying to force the rippin' stuff for the time being and work on fitting smaller, tastier parts in to a groove.

My thought.

I have no problem playing in band situations whatsoever. I never said this was the problem, i have played many many concerts. About 150 in all i think. Im very used to playing with people. It just the things i explained in the other posts. Also im pretty good at creating good cool solos. I don't think i can really explain what i mean :confused:

Is it that you specifically want to be able to play something like the "acceleration of notes" that Slash does? Or is it that you can do it by yourself but for some reason you can't pull it off in a performance setting?

I guess I'm confused as to what exactly you are having trouble with.

Caponi14

You might find what you are looking for in this thread.

http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39200

If not it's still a good read.

You do have great chops! I couldn't even come close to that speed.

Listen, good advice has been given here, but what Christopher posted is pure gold. He's absolutely nailed the heart of the issue. Here's a link of what I think is exactly what's he's talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVpx01rkPhY

Make sure you watch to 1:05... prior to that its what I call "scribble guitar"; its all flash but that's part of Schon's showmanship. But then at 1:05... whoaaaa... where does that come from? Suddenly there's a melody... the audience has a real chance to "feel" what he is playing and connect with the music emotionally. By the way, listen for that really nice synth pad that supports the whole thing.

I just can't agree more with Christopher about the making music idea, and being melodic. I know Caponi you're a huge Slash fan, but keep in mind he's best known for "Sweet Child O' Mine". That song made him famous, and while its not his most technical or challenging song, it is perhaps one of his most sincere efforts in my opinion.

I think in a odd way, its almost harder to slow down, use fewer notes, and really allow your playing to stand on its melodic merits than it is to just blaze away so that everyone says "well, he MUST be good, look how fast he plays". But there is a time for everything, including cutting loose, so hopefully you can be one of those players that knows when to let it all hang out, and when to reign it in. I think you're well on your way, but maybe you have to ask yourself, is it really just about how fast you can play? Is that what you're really looking for, or maybe just more substance over-all?

Keep up the good work!

Originally Posted by: caponi14I have no problem playing in band situations whatsoever. I never said this was the problem, i have played many many concerts. About 150 in all i think. Im very used to playing with people. It just the things i explained in the other posts. Also im pretty good at creating good cool solos. I don't think i can really explain what i mean :confused:[/QUOTE]

I do get what you're saying:
[QUOTE=caponi14]When there is no music, and i play with myself, i can pretty much play these kinds of things without thinking too much about it. But when i have to play these kinds of things in a proper solo i feel that what i do is wrong. I don't feel i get the timing right, i just don't feel that i can pull it off in a solo even though i played those fast licks so much in my few years of playing. I don't know if i can actually do them...

I actually get exactly what you're saying.

I used to play 'Sweet Child' in a band. It's a good, 'groovy' chill song to play with a smokin' solo section. Similar to what you posted with the Alice Cooper song (love that song too), Sweet Child's solo has that ascending run in the middle. The run isn't just a flurry of notes but follows the songs meter. Count off the beats during that ascending part.

Even on the Cooper song, while a little less obvious, it still falls within a groove. Those accelerating parts can be challenging but you have to listen to the groove. Your body has to be swinging and swaying in the groove and your notes will follow.

Thanks for all the support and time you put into it :) that warms my heart.

But no, it's not that i wonna show off my skills. I just want my fast licks to fit better in the solos i do. I think that is as simple as i can cut it out. Have a listen to this, this is me playing a solo over a track some guys from my school did. I actually think i did pretty good with the fast lick at the end there. And thats the kind of speed im talking about, i want those kind of licks to fit better with my solos. i Think it's a matter of breaking down my fast phrases and play them over and over again on the same piece of music and make sure it sounds good....
I actually improvised this solo on the first take:
http://www.silkeborghojskole.dk/silkeborghojskole_elev_portalen_musik_view.php?id=0000000014

There is no timeframe on the track. But my solo is the one that begins just after the Keyboard solo which is also very cool actually :) There is a second guitar player, playing a solo after the one i did. And then a little guitar battle heh!. Listen from the keyboard solo and the rest of the track please :)

I like some of your other YOUTUBE videos..
How about a remake of "Ain't Life Grand".

Originally Posted by: caponi14T i Think it's a matter of breaking down my fast phrases and play them over and over again on the same piece of music and make sure it sounds good....

I think you're nailing that Slash sound and style. Just being honest, there's something I can't put my finger on, but the whole recording just sounds a tad "loose", and I'm not even sure why... you guys seem in time, its just a very slight feeling I get listening to the song. Also, your solo stands out for me as the best guitar playing in the track. I'm just going by my gut feeling, but its as if there isn't a good "groove" setup for the solo to "sit" in... if that makes any sense.

I think your quote is right; you need to break each part of your solo down into sections, practice each section slowly to a metronome, making sure your know where the down beats are at all times, and making sure the emphasis of the notes in your solo is falling on the beats you want it to. For a fast run, I would put the metronome on, put the guitar down, and then sing the solo while clapping out quarter notes, very slowly, paying attention to the rhythmic emphasis... "da da da da da da da DA.... dedaduda dedaduda... " kind of like that. Only when you have a clear mental picture of how the solo should within the beats of the song would I then attempt to play it... slowly at first, so its perfect.

You might want to consider investing in a drum machine that has guitar effects built in.. makes this kind of practice much easier and fun. I use my Boss DR880 every day.

By the way, you're well on your way to being an outstanding guitar player!

Thanks Slip. The only thing i actually play in that track is that solo. The rest i dident have anything to do with.. but yeah it's a little messy recorded.

But thank you!

Yeah, I knew from your post that you played just the solo, and to my ear, your solo sounded tighter than the rest of the music. I only mentioned it because if the band was off just be a hair, it still can make it hard you to lock in to the beat. Its a pretty common problem. Even pro bands use click tracks.

By the way, watched that video that Christopher linked to, and did the foot tapping thing today while playing.... it works really well. I found myself experimenting a lot more with the rhythm of the solo since I always knew by tapping my foot where the beat was. Great tip!

Im gonna try it out also :) Chris is truely the man! Never a doubt in my mind!

What's the real problem?

Cuz if it's the timing isn't right... then practice along with Slash note for note, vibrato for vibrato, tone for tone til anyone who's listening can't tell there are two guitarists playing.

If you want to innovate in his style, I'd suggest redoing his phrases and make many variations on his themes in the modes and scales he uses on the progressions he plays against. Break it down! Don't just imitate. Write it out. Use your music theory to help or even other artists. What are Slash's influences? How deep are you willing to dig? Then integrate it in your playing.

It sounds like you want people to know you pay tribute to Slash just from hearing you but you also want to be your own artist and stand out too. If that's the case, do both of what I suggested above. If not, what's the real problem. You have the chops and drive... this will only be a matter of time for you. That's my thought.