A little respect, that's all

it's not at all easy to detach your self from the old ways, especially when inside your house your parents feel more comforatable speaking Urdu or whatever, and you've group up on the old ways becuase it's whata your parents grew up on.
So mixing wont happen over night (it's gradual), but's not a cancerous growth as some poeple make out to be. To be honest, that's how new things become part of the culture....
I mean really trivial things show that not only are the asains mixing, but also some of their ways are being accepted. Things like takeaways, the most popular take aways are things like Tandoori Chicken, Samosas, Vindaloo (well, curries in general), but back in the 50's and 60's the english born poeple were complaining of the smell of it.

I hear what your saying, but i dont think jews voting for a guy who said that the holocuast was a "detail" in history is really the smartest thing to do.
Vandalisim: where i live, it's a nice quiet area, no vandalism, no smashed windows etc etc. If you take a 10 minute cycle in to the St Giles estate, all of a sudden you see little kids out playing in the street (when they should be at school), Burnt out cars, Windows boarded up with plywood, etc etc, and i really wouldn't go there at night.
If there was mosque in St giles, it would probably be vandalised, and not really be the most welcoming of places. Does it mean that this is a predominantly white christain problem? or is it poverty and urban decay?

Sorry to double post folks,
Christoph: i cannot speak for canada, so this is all from what i've seen and am experiencing in the uk now.
Ok, becoming a doctor here, has HUGE fanancail pay off in comparison to other routes. The big problem is University. Not everyone who wants to do medicine can afford to do so, over here you only pay upto £1200 a year on tuition fees a year. If your parents earn under a certain amount, you dont pay any tution fees. So what does that mean?
Well, my freinds are all doing 4 year courses, at it's costing them around £5000 a year. Which they're paying with student loans (Student loans: loans for student's, which are 0% intrest, and are payed when the person begins to earn more than £10,000 per anum). Now it's doesn't take a genuis to tell you, even with working in summer and a little through out the year, there's gonna be a big bill to pay at the end. That one fo the big factors that puts poeple off.
Also, the idea of studying for 6 years, with none of the fun stuff other courses offer during the course year. THe fact that your friends will have been working and already begun to climb the ladder, while your still neck deep in books isnt really the most inticing aspect of the course.
I think medicine is becoming less popular here, simply because alternate career paths are looking better and better.
Job prostpecs are looking better than ever though. The last year in your course, you'r actually paid £18,000 (jnr House officer , I think that's the correct title). And the ladder is very long and very HIGH. You can earn £60,000 a year woking as a consulant on the NHS alone, and then you can add upto £120,000 from privait clincs etc etc.
Also there is the oppertunity to work in the states, where thanks to good old capitlism, the rich get even richer, and consultans can earn HALF A MILLION a year!!!!! You may see why i would like to go work in the states :D, lol. Oh yeah and research oppertunities are great here, and excellent across the pond.

Originally posted by Christoph

...They've mistakenly blamed Canada for their problems...

Like I said,stupidity is universal.Learning to deal with it is found in this course:
LIFE 001:Making life easier.
You should consider registering for that unit.:)

Originally posted by Christoph

No offense, but I think you guys are running out of doctors because of the socialization of your medical system, not because of an increase in demand. Plain and simple, no one wants to go through the intense hassle of becoming a doctor if there isn't enough economic payoff. Left alone, the medical system would automatically produce enough doctors to fill the increasing demand; because as the demand increases, prices/wages would increase. More prospective doctors would be lured in to claim the increased payoff, and things would come back to equilibrium.

But in a socialized system, there's no increase in wages/prices to match the increasing demand of the higher proportion of old folks. It's the effective equivalent of a price cap. And as we all know, price caps create shortages.

You're absolutely right Chris, our doctors are running to the States because they can make much more money there. It's the called the brain drain, and it's a word that is well known to all Canadians, as a similar situation exists for a lot of our top fields. Simply put, the brains go to where the money is. Which is understandable to some degree: is someone going to stay around getting paid maybe half as much as they would somewhere else, just because of a sense of nationalism? Some reason why our rural areas are seriously lacking doctors: they go to the big cities. So the government places price caps on these doctors for a few years in hopes of inticing docs to move to more rural areas.

If you lived in Canada or viewed our media, you'd hear one particular term quite often when hearing talks about healthcare: two-tier (or, as some call, "American-ized" health care), and a lot of Canadians shiver when they hear it. Because the basic fear (largely promoted by our left-of-center party the NDP) is that by allowing private hospitals, you will develop two systems of healthcare: the private one where all the best doctors and equipment go (because that's where the money is) and the lesser public one. That's essentially the fear. Just a little insight into the socialization of our healthcare system.

Yup, that's the problem. You can either have crappy health care for everyone (under a socialized system), or you can have good health care for some and mediocre for others (under the "American-ized" version). Personally, I'd prefer to have the latter, because there's at least some incentive to try and work your way up.

Originally posted by Zeppelin
I also think it is realy realy bad (and it will cause alot of trouble to europe countries sooner or later) that all those assian immigrates wont even try to be like the europeans and to become part of europe. Dont you think its a bit strange when theres an algir inside france and pakistan inside england???

We have the same thing in the US, particularly with Hispanics and Asians. They have their own neighborhoods where they can live, work, and grow up without learning a thing about the outside world. There are second and third generation immigrants who still can't even speak English.

Like I've said before, there's nothing wrong with immigration or with other cultures. Immigrants should definitely try to keep their own traditions/etc, but if they're going to bother to come here, they should at least learn the language so they can hold down a job.

There are such neighborhoods, but here's how it really works:

First Generation: Aren't comfortable with English, but usually the father figure in the family is fluent enough to hold down a job.

Second Generation: Fluent in both tounges.

Third Generation: Speaks English only.

Remember, the kids have to go to public schools who only teach in English, so while their native tounge might be spoken in the home and on the street, they still have to work, and they still have to leave the 'hood for things they can't get there. They MUST know English or a have a kid they can send to run errands for them.

Actually in most public schools being able to speak English is not a prerequisite to attendance. Kids who don't speak English are put into special programs in their native language (mainly Spanish). Without these programs the kids would learn English in a few months, because kids are fast learners and their language isn't heavily ingrained. Necessity is the mother of many things, and learning is one of them.

So then we have these kids who don't speak English, who have grown up in sheltered neighborhoods, try to go out and get jobs. Then they realize that knowing English is necessary if you want to do anything other than the lowest-end labor. And then of course we end up with crime, drugs, and all sorts of other wonderful things.

Originally posted by James

...It's the called the brain drain, and it's a word that is well known to all Canadians... [/B]

Apparently it's not only us in Africa who are suffering from this 'drain' thing.Knowing others have the problem too doesn't make it any better,but the knowledge is kinda comforting.
*shrug*

Hey folks, I know my chiming in on this topic isn't going to be well received but I feel compelled to say this: Christoph, there is far more going on in the Canadian Economy that is causing 'Brain Drain' and the Doctors are coming back to Canada because thay cannot pay the premiums on mal-practice insurance in the U.S. CDN Doctors do not understand that they belong to a service industry and as a result, hang out a shingle and expect to be treated like gods. It works for them in Canada but not the U.S. Different mind set.

Benoit: Tell the 'Language Police' in Quebec to stop slapping the peckers of the folks that can't learn the French Canadian language fast enough. They act like the Taliban in Afghanistan saying a mans beard is too short. Je parlais deux la lange, english c'est bon! But, I am trying.

We are off topic guys, this was about an anthem! We are neighbours and should not boo each other or anyone else like that.

I AM CANADIAN!

blaksmith, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "expect to be treated like Gods"... could you elaborate on the post?

As for the Quebec language thing, well, they violate bilingual language laws constitutionally through s. 33 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the "Notwithstanding Clause", that allows a legislature to pass laws in violation of the charter for five year terms. So every five years they renew it. s. 33 isn't used much, because it's essentially political suicide unless you're the Bloc passing their language bills.

None of those "non-vital" jobs require nearly as much of an investment into their education.

While a lot of doctors do make insane ammounts of money, don't they deserve some kind of return on the money they put into getting that job?

Hey Ponyone. I'm with you up to a certain point. I think the world would be a better place if we paid the teachers,cops,firefighters, etc as much as the doctors. I'd like to see my tax dollars go there than to build some damn space station that I'll never set foot on. :rolleyes:

I'm not against a space station, it seems like a step in the RIGHT direction of scientific discovery, but what about the $700,000,000 you guys spent developing and testing the ridiculous National Missile Defense System? Imagine the social programs that money could have been put into.

Well I'll go along with that too. I think science is great but I would like to see all those brains at NASA working to save the environment, develop alternative sources of energy, and relinquish our dependency on oil. And to be honest if this county would quit sticking it's nose in everybody's affairs we wouldn't need a missile defense system. I'm ranting again aren't I. I really do think that our tax dollars could be used more wisely, but I think every country probably has that dilemna to some extent.

Actually, much of what NASA does IS beneficial in that area. Why do you think fuel cells were developed? Internal combustion engines don't work in space - no oxygen.

And quite frankly, the missle defense system is useless. Russia wouldn't launch, and the rest of the world's nuclear nations don't have a large enough stock pile to defeat us. We however can easy crush them.

What we do have to worry about is is somebody trucking a nuke into a major US city and touching it off. No missle can defend against that.

I agree with both you and James that we benefit a great deal from the exploits of NASA. Hell, that's where we got Tang from...just kidding..actually to be honest this is getting far too political for my tastes...hey anybody here remember a band called Wishbone Ash? :D

James,

Sorry it took so long to get back... It has been my experience with Doctor's in this country that they go to school, get a medical licence, a minor in business and phsyc, then expect us to look at them like hero's for being smart enough to finish the schooling. Therefore, some that I have met ( I cannot speak for all ) expect their patients to put them on a pedestal and kiss the ring when passing. To me, that is not a really good way to get folks to talk about your service ( which it is ) in a favourable light. Thein lies the problem. This same egomaniacal, great-than-thou attitude will not work in a country like the U.S. unless you learn how to sell yourself and leave the ego for the yacht club. IF you find a doctor here that treats you like a person and listens to the symptoms you describe in a visit, I can assure you that the same doctor will leave the proffession for something that does not include patient involvement. Co-incidentally, they are similar to the doctors that do a 7 minute 'audience' and hand you a prescription.

If the medical services in this country were to go private, you would see a very different approach to patient care. I guarantee it.

For those that think Canada offers you a doctor, at the governments choosing and not the individuals, you are wrong. Plain and simple. I have been with my doctor for some 20 years and was one of his first patients in his very first practice when he started out. I heard good things and they were all true. He gave me 'samples' of medicine when I didn't have a drug plan, as soon as I got a plan, he could help someone else out and he did/does. He is also very busy in the office and somewhat politically, to that end, he is not the same attentive guy he used to be. What a crying shame. This is not socialized medicine as we would know it from the days of 'The Iron Curtain', we pay VERY high taxes in this country/province/municipality for the privilege of NOT going up to our necks in hock for treatment of a kidney. The idea is simple, some people will not get as sick as others, everyone (generally) pays the same from taxes and in the end the tally sheet will balance. That is the idea. Now, if we could just keep people from going to the emrgency room for a sliver, we would all be better off.

Back to my point, the doctors are bitching about not making enough. Welcome to the club! I have specialized skills too, that does not mean I can ALWAYS write my own ticket. It is a business, this medicine and don't let anyone tell you any different. Doctors have far more write offs and get PREMIUM treatment for themselves and family, a far cry from what I am offered when I go to the office for a check up.

O.K., I'm done. Sorry about the rant. I have been waiting for two weeks to get test results for someone close to me. We went to find the answer last week and were told to come back, next week. *ching* Another $57 for 7 minutes work. Sure wish I could make $488 an hour.

Thanks for clearing it up, I agree with much of what you said. About that "sliver" thing, I had to laugh..

A couple years ago back in my rugby days and had an injury to my thumb, I figured it might have been broken. So I went straight to the emergency room and filled out the form, so on and so on. She said, "someone will see you whenever its available". So I waited. I waited for close to two and a half hours before I walked out, went home, and put some ice on it (I'm still not sure if it was broken, maybe fractured). Now, there were some people who went ahead of me with legitimate problems (one guy cutting his hand open on a circular saw), but on the floor in the waiting room were about five toddlers playing with toys, looking quite happy, while there anxious mothers sat bitting their nails wondering when the doctor would be able to see their terminally ill little babies. They seemed fine to me, and I think I remember hearing from one mother that her child had a cold and she is "Just checking to make sure it isn't too serious". Well fine, but DON'T GO TO THE GODDAMN EMERGENCY ROOM!". Because here's poor James over here nursing a very very painful thumb injury! Anyways, the point is that people need to stop abusing the *emergency* room for minor stuff. Get an appointment at a local clinic if you're that worried.

About the NMD.

We live in an age where nuclear devices can be carried in suitcases and the Cold-War threat of ICBMs have all but vanished, and yet Bush is making it his mission to implement a system that is actually going to destabilize the current balance of nuclear power and violate the ABM treaty of 1974 that has been credited with maitaining nearly 30 years of nuclear stability.

Putting aside the ridiculousness of it from a financial and political standpoint: the damn thing doesn't even work!! Two tests and two failures. As one official put it, "it's like trying to shoot one bullet with another bullet".

You'd think that in the post Sept. 11th world, approaching national security from a Cold-War perspective would be an obvious blunder.