Very Discouraged...

Hi all - first post here... maybe someone can get me moving again...

I'm a beginner. I've been a beginner for about 20 years. I've been a member of guitar tricks for just over a year and while I've improved a bit, I still can't play a complete song. I have little bits and pieces of many songs I can play, but I'm discouraged that every song seems to have 2-3 rhythm guitars and a lead - it's simply impossible to play a full song with one person!

My question is about where to go from here... Practicing mechanics like scales and chords is not appealing AT ALL, so I don't do it. Neither is just working on bits and pieces of songs, knowing you'll never be able to out it all together and ACTUALLY make it sound like a song people would recognize.

I love the blues and rock... I love Stevie Ray and John Fogerty/CCR stuff, especially that overdriven tubey sound in solos like in Heard it Through the Grapevine, etc. Have I just chosen the wrong songs? Simple songs are tooooo boring... who cares if I can play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

I'd be happy in the short term (2-5 years) just being able to play songs and not fear the moment at a party where someone says, "hey, you play the guitar - play something for us!" Right now I have to tell everyone I suck, which doesn't feel very good, of course.

I understand that to play proper lead I'll have to know every nuance of every chord and scale so I can improvise - I get that.

I've worked through the core stuff (1 & 2) on guitar tricks. It's just not coming together. Can anyone suggest a path? If someone can assure me that if I follow a particular path I'll arrive at my destination I'll do it, but I can't see it right now. Should I focus on songs or mechanics? I'd say songs, given my goals, but what songs?

Thanks!

Bret

Hey Bret....

Let me ask, do you have solid goals? If so, what are you doing to achieve them. You mentioned you have some desires, but are they solid goals? As with anything, you have to put the time in.

Why are you playing guitar in the first place? That's not meant to be a discouraging question, rather, a internally focused question.

I think you are doing the right thing trying to find something to keep your interest rather than just flat out giving up. Yes, having complete songs that you like which suit your playing level makes a big difference. You have to have fun!

One question - have you gone through any of the branches in the core system? After the first 2 parts, you can choose blues, rock, or country. I'm currently going through the blues one and I think it's great. I can remember going through similar stuff back when I was first learning. Even if you haven't completely mastered the first 2 parts, you could start with some of that.

Many of the songs I learned at first which were cool and relatively easy to play were Beatles and Eagles songs. GT has great resources here, but don't limit yourself to only songs here. I have a music book of all of the Eagles songs and it's great fun to pull that out, cue up Eagles Greatest Hits, and play along.

Lyin' Eyes is a great song to strum too. So is Best of My Love. Something from Abbey Road is another one I had learned. It also has a relatively easy, but cool, solo. Day Tripper has a cool guitar riff and relatively easy chords. Hotel California is good - you don't have to learn the exact finger picking parts and stuff...learn the chords and strum along. If you are starting out, just being able to do that is an acomplishment and can give you lots of enjoyment. The Rolling Stones have some easy stuff too, or at least can be played in an easy way.

Don't let your dislike for some artists turn you away. Learning to play a song that fits your ability but perhaps isn't your taste can give you a new appreciation for the song. I was never much of a Rolling Stones fan, but it was fun to play some of their songs.

I agree that just doing exercises can get boring and you feel like you get nothing out of it. I found that practicing scales helped my dexterity and finger strength. I also plan to do it to help train my ear and learn the notes on the fretboard. Do stuff like that, but mix it in with fun stuff.

I hope you find something to keep your interest.

Originally Posted by: maggiorHotel California is good - you don't have to learn the exact finger picking parts and stuff...learn the chords and strum along.

Thanks, maggior, but you made my point for me - Hotel California takes something like *9* guitars to make work! I started in on it, learned a few licks and got discouraged knowing I'd never be able to play it from start to finish and have people recognize it.

I'll look into your other suggestions, though. Thanks.

Bret

Looking at it another way.

I bet you don’t like to garden either. It is so much work digging the dirt and removing all the rocks, planting the seeds is not too bad, but all that weeding is just too boring and too much work. Although eating the great tasting food when it is all grown and ready for harvest is something you enjoy. That explains why you are a 20 year beginner.

Digging in the ground is like learning to change chords and scales are like weeding it is things that Have to be done before you can enjoy the fruit of your labor. With no labor there are no songs to be played.

The above is meant to give you a chance to look at it another way, not anger you.

Bret,
First, kudos to you for bringing your frustrations out in the open. I hope the replies you get inspire you.

In general (maybe in your case, maybe not, you have to decide) I notice this: people who tend to want to be a great guitarist often try to skip the middle part where they are an ok guitarist. So they try to play purple haze when really they should we working on smoke on the water. And enjoying smoke on the water. There's a lot to enjoy in just playing some chords, in time, for the whole song.

I would recommend that you try the "songs made easy" part of the beginners section of songs, and then move onto the "easy songs" at the bottom of that same page. Whatever songs you learn, don't just learn the fun parts, learn the whole song and work toward playing it in time with the performance track at the end of the lesson.

Hope this helps.

Jon

[QUOTE=bschuhmaCan anyone suggest a path? If someone can assure me that if I follow a particular path I'll arrive at my destination I'll do it, but I can't see it right now. [/QUOTE]

Hi Bret... along with the great advice offered, I'd like to ask you to answer the above question. What "destination" do you want to arrive at, and why? Get to the heart of the issue... what kind of guitar player do you want to be and why?

Saying something like "I'd like to be able to play a few songs at parties and not suck" is not deep enough of an answer... why do you want to be able to do that? What is your true goal with playing the guitar? It sounds like right now you have a loosely defined short-term goal, but what is the long term goal? What kind of guitar playing feeds you, gets you amped up about playing guitar? If you could play anything, what would it be, and why?

If you can really give it some thought, and come up with a honest, defined answer, I think we can help.

In the meantime, a couple of simple things:

-pick a song that you like that has an easy guitar part. "Knock Knock Knockin on Heaven's Door" is as simple as it gets... start with stuff like that.

-"fake" songs.... if you're going to play for friends, remember, you can "fake" the tune by not trying to play it exactly as it was recorded... you're just one guitar. Come up with a version of the song that works for just one guitar, and is relatively easy to play.

-find some way to get some jam tracks, a beat box or whatever, and learn scales by just experimenting and soloing. If you are learning scales but never putting them in context, then they won't stick and you'll be bored.

-I DO care if you can play "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star"... can you? Can you start on any note and figure out the rest just by ear? When you go to hit a note in a solo, do you know how it will sound before you hit it, or are you just following a box pattern hoping that the note will sound good? (a lot of players do). I was jamming to a preset on my DR880 that had a very distinct chord progression, when I suddenly realized it worked perfectly for "Puff the Magic Dragon"... it was fun to "solo" Puff just as an ear-training exercise. This kind of training helps you move towards being able to hear the note in your head, and then play it on the fretboard.

Anyway, that's all just temporary suggestions. When you can answer what kind of guitar player you want to be and why, then you can define a path. There's no wrong answer by the way.

Originally Posted by: bschuhmaThanks, maggior, but you made my point for me - Hotel California takes something like *9* guitars to make work! I started in on it, learned a few licks and got discouraged knowing I'd never be able to play it from start to finish and have people recognize it.

I'll look into your other suggestions, though. Thanks.

Bret

You missed my point - you don't need 9 guitars to make it work. It can work with one acoustic guitar strumming Bm, F#, A, E, G, D, Em, F# (I think that's the progression). After you advance further, you can go back and revisit it and learn the more intricate parts of the song.

As Jon pointed out, doing just that in time through the entire song can be quite satisfying.

In fact, I'll be doing that myself. I learned the basic chords and the 2nd solo back in the day. It was news to me that a capo was used for the intro part. One of these days I'll be tackling that.

Originally Posted by: Slipin Lizard-I DO care if you can play "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star"... can you? Can you start on any note and figure out the rest just by ear? When you go to hit a note in a solo, do you know how it will sound before you hit it, or are you just following a box pattern hoping that the note will sound good? (a lot of players do). I was jamming to a preset on my DR880 that had a very distinct chord progression, when I suddenly realized it worked perfectly for "Puff the Magic Dragon"... it was fun to "solo" Puff just as an ear-training exercise. This kind of training helps you move towards being able to hear the note in your head, and then play it on the fretboard.

As one new guitarist to another, I can only vouch for this. While I don't do ear-training with Puff or Twinkle Twinkle Lucky Star, I still tried this about two months ago with Rod Stewart's "Sailing". The main potion of the song wasn't that hard to figure out, but I'm still having fun trying to work out the guitar-solo without resorting to any kind of tabs or musical notation. I'm having fun practicing a song I like, while training my ears at the same time. And if I could begin doing that after only having played the guitar for half a year, you can do it too, no doubt about that.

Originally Posted by: bschuhmaHi all - first post here... maybe someone can get me moving again...

I'm a beginner. I've been a beginner for about 20 years. I've been a member of guitar tricks for just over a year and while I've improved a bit, I still can't play a complete song. I have little bits and pieces of many songs I can play, but I'm discouraged that every song seems to have 2-3 rhythm guitars and a lead - it's simply impossible to play a full song with one person!

My question is about where to go from here... Practicing mechanics like scales and chords is not appealing AT ALL, so I don't do it. Neither is just working on bits and pieces of songs, knowing you'll never be able to out it all together and ACTUALLY make it sound like a song people would recognize.

I love the blues and rock... I love Stevie Ray and John Fogerty/CCR stuff, especially that overdriven tubey sound in solos like in Heard it Through the Grapevine, etc. Have I just chosen the wrong songs? Simple songs are tooooo boring... who cares if I can play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star?

I'd be happy in the short term (2-5 years) just being able to play songs and not fear the moment at a party where someone says, "hey, you play the guitar - play something for us!" Right now I have to tell everyone I suck, which doesn't feel very good, of course.

I understand that to play proper lead I'll have to know every nuance of every chord and scale so I can improvise - I get that.

I've worked through the core stuff (1 & 2) on guitar tricks. It's just not coming together. Can anyone suggest a path? If someone can assure me that if I follow a particular path I'll arrive at my destination I'll do it, but I can't see it right now. Should I focus on songs or mechanics? I'd say songs, given my goals, but what songs?

Thanks!

Bret

Greetings Bret,
I am glad to read your inquiry here. Do not feel alone if you hit those snags as you are trying to learn. I am a newbee also in it's own right. I put down the guitar about 25years ago, not too good then either, and I am trying it again. What I knew before was habits that really has hindered me in many ways. I am still struggling in areas, but look at it this way, at one point you had no idea about a guitar other than to pick it up, but you have learnt some chords and ect. and this is more than you knew when you picked it up. So you are teachable, it just takes time.
A couple days ago, I was doing really good with the spider legs exercise, and today my fingers have no direction at all, this is frustrating but I am going to keep moving forward. One thing I do is go back to a lesson before the one I battle with and get reacquainted with previous lessons in case I am missing something again.
Some go through some real ups and downs trying to learn. You get some good runs and then hit some real dry periods and you think you have plateaued to your top end.
Have fun with it, and don't beat yourself up for not doing things 100% all the time, even professionals make mistakes and have rough times. I am a professional at making mistakes and doing like others do.
You will make it.

One more thing I'd like to add: If you find that doing simple chord/scale exercises is boring, try spicing them up a bit. My grade-school music teacher used to explain it, by using an analogy to food. The guitar itself is the plate, the boring stuff (exercises) is the vegetables and potatoes, and the fun things (songs, riffs and licks) is the meat, while gigs are the dessert. Young kids usually don't want to eat the vegetables, but if you do something to the potatoes (make chips or fries of them), kids will eat as many as they can with no hesitation. Likewise, if you try to conceal your chord and scale-exercises so they look like something else, such as a riff or some chord progressions, you will still know it's the boring stuff, but it won't "taste" as bad, because it's "prepared" differently.

Now, you may think "but I can eat my meat without eating the potatoes". And that's correct. You can eat your meat and leave the potatoes on the plate, but if you do, you won't grow up to be strong. Alternately, you can eat the potatoes without eating the meat, but you won't get the proteins needed to grow up. Either way, the only way

Do you “want” to play guitar or do you “wish” you can play guitar?
What is the difference between what you want and what you wish?


Want Something: Willing to work for it or due without other things to get or achieve it.

Wish Something: Just that.

It sounds like you “want” to play, if so, you will have to do the things you “wish” you would not have to, to achieve it.

Do you “want” to play guitar or do you “wish” you can play guitar?
What is the difference between what you want and what you wish?


Want Something: Willing to work for it or due without other things to get or achieve it.

Wish Something: Just that.

It sounds like you want to play, if so, you will have to do the things you wish you would not have to, to achieve it.

Very good and honest post Bschuhma and very good advice from all.

Having myself just played a guest spot at a guitar club, reading your post makes me realise that how you feel now is exactly how I felt a few years ago but there, I have just done what I always wanted! How I overcame that feeling of uselessness is something I find a bit hard to summarise but I made it to a half decent level of playing and so can you, and probably go way beyond! You just need to stick at it and do your own thing but within the structures that are available to you.

My progress is posted on Youtube and might be some encouragement for you.

Good luck!

Try and find others to play with. No matter how good you or they are, you can learn and share from each other. Get out to your music store and ask a sales clerk to 'show' you some equipment with both playing. My local store is very good for that. Just make sure you buy some strings as a thank you.
Also, start slow! Nothing makes you say 'forget it' quicker than not being able to play a riff after 1/2 hour trying.

I always found that if I listen to the basic chords of a song payed one way by your beginner or average guitar player, and someone who has some advanced skills, the more advanced player will still play the same basic chords but just add things like "hammer on's" and "pull offs", and a string bend here or there.... it makes the tune much more enjoyable with just these small additions. Almost as if there is more going on than just a single guitar. It is still the same song, just played using a handful of "Guitar Tricks". <-- plug

You should find a partner ..... that'll keep you going and motivate you to the next level. You'll practice more ... you won't let that person down. Find a partner to jam with, you know the Blues in the Key of E, A, or G and the corresponding pentatonic scales. Find a partner.

I have to say I'm in a similar situation. I never did like the nitty gritty stuff like learning scales and theory. Every time I hear a great song on the radio it pushes me to focuse more and I slowly get better. As much as I love this site I might recommend taking lessons with an actual instructor. They can give you the personal attention that you can't get from online lessons. You have to walk before you run. Building a solid foundation is so important when learning an instrument. No one likes to practice the boring stuff, but it makes learning songs much easier. Just remember music is fun. Think about what made you pick up that guitar in the first place and let that motivate you. I too am a big SRV fan and I know I'll never sound like him, but that doesn't stop me from trying. Have fun!!!!

I'm a beginer too. This is going on 3 years with G.T. Practice, Practice, Practice. Lisa McCormick has a great beginner course. Try her for starters, I also take alive lesson every other week. I'm working on a Bm Blue piece with him. He is not going to let me go any further until I can play that from start to finish without stopping. I guess what I'm saying you have to really want to play to get over the hump. Things will come easier but you have to put the time in.

R.M

Hi Bret, thanks for the post. I'm not a 20
year beginner, more like a 2 month beginner and
I started out with zero guitar knowledge. Just
a couple of piano lessons when I was a kid.

It helps to know that we are not alone with figuring
out how to play the guitar and most importantly
start to sing some songs. That's actually why I'm
trying to learn guitar so I can sing some of those
popular songs to have some fun and maybe show
close friends and relatives that I can play the
guitar as well..

I think learning the chords is not that difficult,
it's just memorizing the shapes and getting the
hand and fingers to memorize it as well (muscle
memory). What's difficult for me right now is
the strum patterns.

Changing chords, remembering the strum pattern for
a particular song and then actually singing the
song is man, a challenge.

So you're not alone... I guess what I'm trying to
say is that maybe we just need to practice more
and after a while it will get easier (that's what
my guitarist friend tells me).

Anyways, hang in there bud, you're not alone and
don't get discouraged :-)

QB