Intermediate player (I think) with time trouble...

Hi, I started playing the electric guitar about a year and a half ago and I've catched up very well the instrument thus far. However, since I lack the time to play in bands, I do not get to play many pieces with percussion, therefore I lack experience in timing. I have played with a metronome before, yet there is something ( I really don't know what it is) that I still can't catch. For example, I took the solo for one of my favorite songs, Crazy Train, and learned it note by note, yet when I go and play it against a marked time, I end up either lagging behind or blazing ahead, never just perfect. Which leads me to many questions, one of which is how does a guitarist know if he is in the right time when his attention is on hitting the correct notes of the solo? Is there anyone else who has the same problem? How did you solve it? How can you make tha metronome to "work"? Thanks for your reply, I need it...

i've been playing 10 months ( just turned 14) and also am an intermediate player, but moving fast. the thing you do is if you get the foot-beat ( i got it) you know, keep the beat with your foot, you should be alright. if not, focus on the beat, then try playing something simple with the beat, then move it up to the solo. its not that hard once you get used to it

That's it. You have to hear the rhythm inside, so you need to tap your foot. Or move your body, whatever... Learn your solo SLOW, then move it up to speed.

does a guitarist know if he is in the right time when his attention is on hitting the correct notes of the solo?

THAT is the problem!

You must be able to play the solos/rythms/whateva without thinking! If u have trouble and you have to be focusde on "hitting the right notes" then you cannot at te same time be precise on the piont unless you are a VERY experienced player.

A good player does not give 120% on stage - he gives 70% and that has to be good enough for the music. If u cannot play a solo clean and clearly, then dont play it. (that refers to peeps who wanna play live)

I suggeest you to play along with recorded songs and backing tracks - and (if u have the possibilities) record youself to see where yer problems are.

Cheers

-=[Azrael]=-

Azreal says :
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Absolutely.
-Daniel

Sometimes when players reach a certain speed they kind of fall into "free time", and basically go nuts without paying particular attention to the timing, or maybe accenting the main beats but paying no attention to the others. Trying to reproduce a solo like this note for note could be impossible.

But I Randy Rhoads would probably have complete control over timing, since he is classically trained and all.

exactly. also, get somebody else to jam with, on friday i was jamming with my teacher, and i didnt really 'think' about the notes i was playing, i just let my fingers tap the energy out, and suprizingly, it was very rewarding and very fun. it becomes the 6th sense for me when somebody else is doin the rhythm, you just do some lines over it. its waaaay awesome, best 'drug' ever. guitar, i mean...

I do think the teacher is the best way to go if your,
having trouble with your timing.(Speeding up Slowing down)ect.
But if you have timing you can get the right speed,
of the notes to a cover song by listining to it,
but i would say most can't if thier just starting out!
Not everyone can or will ever get the rhythm inside,
thier head.(Thats why we have people who play music and
people who listin to music.(sad but true)
Some poeple can learn timimg and some can't.


Mark

Having a teacher is the best for a lot of things actually!
But after you got things down, you need to go on your own, develop your own creativity, of find another teacher.

Your so right Lalimacefolle.

Mark

There are a couple options for working on your timing. I totally agree. A metronome is a great thing to have, but it doesn't replace an actual rhythm section backing you. Here's a couple things that might work, one cheap and one that will cost you:

There are alot of "Jam Tracks" out there, that have different styles, some even different songs, where the guitar is missing from the track. If you go to Musiciansfriend.com you can find blues, rock, country and I believe Jazz there. Also, there's a site called jamtrax.com that has different songs/styles. You might have seen them advertised in GuitarOne Magazine. Anyway, they have all kinds of different songs/artists. They break the song down note for note, which really doesn't help you learn, but they do have backing tracks for everything which is nice. I'm not sure what either of these options cost, but I'd be willing to bet they're at least $20 a piece.

The second option, and one I use to use quite frequently when I was first learning, is record your own rhythm tracks on something like a cassette and do some leads with it. Start of with something like a twelve bar blues rhythm, in different key and in different tempos and have fun with it. After you get comfortable with that, then start recording rhythm sections from songs you like to play. It doesn't make up for drums/bass, but your timing will probably increase.

I've been playing in bands for years, and sometime I even get off on my timing. Sometimes it's because I can't hear myself, sometimes it's because the bass or drums start lagging and I'm still playing regular tempo and sometimes the singer f#$ks up a verse and throws me off. You'll learn to use all those as cues to keep your timing on in good time.

If your having trouble with soloing, first of all, don't worry. Soloing is something that just comes with time and practice. Secondly, and this might sound weird, but you might be either feeling the music to little or too much. If you don't feel and connect with the song, then the solo won't go well. The same can apply if you are so into the song that you forget everything but soloing. Part of it can be ego (and there's not a guitarist among us who can truthfully say that this is incorrect). Guitarists are notorious for their egos, especially shredders (not that there's anything wrong with shredding, but my experience has shown me that all they think about is the solo). To remedy this, don't go into the solo with the intention of wowing people, or making the song great (although each of these are possible), just go in and contribute what you can to the music. Simplicity can be the key. Don't think that fast solos are better. A nice smooth solo that fits the mood of the song says way more about a person's musicianship than whether they can play 32nd note runs all the time. Just wait for it to happen, man. You've got your whole life to improve this area and find a style that's your own, so don't rush it (pun intended!).

practice playin along with the songs on cd( or
however ya have em recorded) i download songs
into my computer and just go down the list playin
along with the bands.the metronome is good for
when yer excercisin but ya could get ya a drum
machine which might give better energy.until
you can keep time you will be a problem in any
band ( one of many problems of playin in a band
is that each musician brings his own shortcomings
and few will work to overcome them) if you want to
master your instrument then do the work .

Get a drum machine and play against the drum machine backing frequently. This will straighten your timing without fail. Timing is, IMO, the one thing that separates the accomplished from the beginner guitarist. You are right to focus on it.

If you don't have a drum machine, download fruityloops software (shareware is save-disabled and works fine). highly recommended.

i think its a matter of just 'commuticating' with other musicians when you solo, and sometimes thats better than some metromone ( although playing in time is important too.)