Need Some Good Pointers From Shredders

I am a fairly good guitar player. I've been playing for about a year now and I am confident with my rhythmn skills. Now I'm tryin to get into soloing. I have a good understanding of music theory...and I am learning more. I listen to everything except rap. I just need to know some good things to build up my technique. Getting faster with my tremelo picking and faster left hand fingers. I love to play the old 80's metal stuff with all the fast guitar work and that's what I am trying to be able to play like. Any good tips or help on this subject will be paid in full with...um...something...

Yea, all you really need to work on is knowing a scale or two and playing it fast in various positions on the fret board, shredding is fairly simple. Most shredders stick to this traditional form or just running scales in the particular key of whatever song they are soloing in.
I'd advise against it except for learning how to shred. when you start making **** up try and get more cretive with whatever you are "shredding" on the guitar.

My first tip would be throw out what you know of trem picking since it makes up like 1% of all true shredding.
Accurate rhythm when playing lead is essential to playing clean and well sound really good, not just good. Though there are times where cutting the perfect rhythm corner can be done.

Second whatever you do start slow at learning to play lead fast, build speed naturally, that way you don't just train your fingers to move quickly and efficiently, but have a more balanced ability to go slow and fast.

One of the most common training exercises for building speed, accuracy and dexterity is the ole:

|------------1-2-3-4-
|1-2-3-4---------

up and down the fret board over and over again, just go down all the strings and come back up all the strings. It's best to do this with some sort of metranome so that you can accurately time everything. I'd say start slow at at least 80 tempo. You might find this absurd and too slow to play at for a while, but then you can start playing 16th note tripplets and find out that it gets a little harder or 32nd notes at that speed.

If you would like me to send you some exercises in tab format that i have run across over the time i've spent learning to shred just e-mail me at graphics_ninja@yahoo.com

hope this helps you some.

HI!

To get a good speed and a clear tone (very important cuz if all the tones mix up it sounds crappy and not precise) there are a few tips what u should do:

1. Get a metronome

to work with a metronome is a good way to improve both speed and accuracy. start with a basic pattern say:

http://www.ktv-krems.at/s.trailovic/unbenannt.html

Start at a pulse of 120 beats per minute and play 16th notes so that every 4th note falls evenly over each click.
Try not to use distorted sound - you will hear it better with a clean tone. try to accent every fourth note. Then move the tempo up in steps of 8 bpm (120, 128, 136, etc)
When u get in trouble at a certain speed then move back to the lower speed or start again from 120.

Parctive this till u reach a maximum of 208 bpm - at such a high speed it is important that u accentuate every 4th note in order to creato yer own click - and that should completely match the metronome.

2. Economic movements!! Use all 4 fingers (i know alot of gutarists with an underdeveloped pinky).

When u play try an make very very small movements - do not lift yer fingers off a string unless it is necessary. DO not move away your fingers more than 2 millimeters from a string - this will improve accuracy and speed.

3. Try to play without fret-noise. A good damping technique from both left and right hand is essential!

4. Use alternate picking! (without that you will never break the speed of light)

5. Use Sweepings if u play uneven groups o notes per string!

ex: (d=downward stroke, u=upward stroke)

e___________
b___________
g___________
d____________________12_14_15
a___________12_14_15_
E__12_14_15_
...d..u..d...d..u..d..d..u..d.

so every time u change a string use a sweep (will take a while till u get used to this) - it only works with uneven groups of notes per string (1, 3, 5, etc)

6. Play legato whenever possible! (hammer ons and pulloffs)

Modern guitarplay (shredding solos) consists IMHO of 70% legato and 30 picked!!

Cheers
-=[Azrael]=-

Thankx guys. I don't have a metronome, but would a simple beat work? i.e. my little brother's keyboard?

Sure ;)

I'm going to have to disagree with you there Azrael. When playing the 3 note per string scale..DO NOT sweep. alternate pick regardless.

Personally, I grew up (on the guitar) by doing that sweep and I sort of regret it. I won't say that you can go faster with strickly alternate picking, but it sounds much better. I have found that with that sweep technique, you sacrifice a clean rythem. I almost always "gain" a beat after one of the string sweep lines which throws timing off, and It took me years to find out exactly why. After I adjusted to alternate picking, the problem vanished. I wouldn't make it a habit of doing that sweep technique.

heh...I don't think I would have that problem...I can't sweep...I don't know why...maybe I just don't understand how you do it correctly...but I can't. Though it's something that I would love to learn.

I´m doing that sweep and i never had any troubles with it - its true that it sounds a bit different to "normal" alternate picks, but WOW - another dimension you can add to yer play! ;)

-Azrael]=-

What you're talking about, sweeping to the next string when playing scales, is called economy picking. It has some followers (I think Frank Gambale first popularized this technique), but I think the recognized standard is alternate picking. You can get all the speed you need out of alternate picking, and it keeps in time way better.

Economic picking may have a place in certain situations, but I strongly recommend you master alternate picking first. Like Mai Zure, I also began by using economy picking. When I began studying with my current teacher he convinced me to change. I haven't looked back since.

I have alternate picking down pat. Though I do have another question: would my double-jointedness affect my playing? I can't seem to keep my pinky low, near the strings. It always lifts up. I can still play with it and all, it just won't stay near the string. And as far as sweep picking, I could never understand how you would strum the strings with one stroke, but not allow the notes to ring into each other. It justs seems really complicated. Maybe I am not at that point yet...but like I said, it's something that I want to learn.

Originally posted by James
What you're talking about, sweeping to the next string when playing scales, is called economy picking. It has some followers (I think Frank Gambale first popularized this technique), but I think the recognized standard is alternate picking. You can get all the speed you need out of alternate picking, and it keeps in time way better.

Economic picking may have a place in certain situations, but I strongly recommend you master alternate picking first. Like Mai Zure, I also began by using economy picking. When I began studying with my current teacher he convinced me to change. I haven't looked back since.

And? Does that mean he´s not allowed to learn it?
However - i do not see your point there - of cousre he should master alternate picking fist - thatz why economipicking was my last suggestion in the list. Nore did i say that he should use economy picking all the time.
I also cannot see why you get out of timing when using economy picking - i never had that problem. If you realy learn it and try it, you´ll stay in time! The only thin ght is different is, that the firs note on each string isnt accentuated cuz of the smooth pick-motion - its more like an 18-tuplet (if u go across all 6 strings in groups of 3 per string).

Oh yes.. that reminds me..

If u play 3 notes per string in 16th notes u have to accentuate on every 4th note. I mention this because 3 notes per string might lead you (uncontious) to play tripets (sp?) - and that might get u out of time if it is unwanted.. but u might aswell not be concerned with this problem.

Cheerz!

-=[Azrael]=-
(who learns EVERY technique to evolve his play)

The three note per string sweeping technique is actually called "economy picking". If you think it's a bad idea to take this method - have a listen to Frank Gambale!!! I've used the technique in moderation for a few years now and have found it useful at times. I understand that it's difficult for someone to learn something new that, quite honestly, arrives at the same conclusion as another, more popular technique. My advice...touch on the subject. If it works for you push it a little further. If you can see it as a dead end technique that will lead you nowhere, push it to the back of your arsenal and dig it up at a llater date when you're personal style and tastes have changed. Maybe, after the time lapse you will find that you have a different vision and direction for the technique. I would advise you to try everything that comes down the pike at least once. Way back in 78'..."What in the world is finger tapping? And why would you want to do it?" Before that "What in the world is pinch harmonics and why would you want to do it?" "What in the world is sweep picking and why would you want to do it?" "Why would you wanna play 240 BPM phrygian dominant scales?"

My point is that everyone plays differently. Every has different tastes and needs. It takes someone daring to push the edge of the envelope. That "push" can never happen if you play within the confinements of what everyone else has played before...

I like what you're saying Omega, but just one thing...Can you show me how to play a Phrygian Dominant Scale? :cool:

[Edited by Mai Zure on 02-08-2002 at 08:27 AM]

There is a STRONG tendency to rush things when trying to develop speed. And then things become self defeating. You MUST FIGHT the urge to rush. If you can play a scale at 120 bm 16ths, don't try to jump to 140bm and stumble through the same scale, you might be able to play it cleanly once or twice , but the key is consistency, you should be able to play the scale,lick , exercise etc... cleanly and consistently at any speed, then you'll know that you are on the right track. I think you'll find that the learning curve is steep initially but if you practice correctly, that curve will shorten before you know it. And remember to learn songs from "shredders" you admire. Once again, play the licks at your speed, and eventually you will reach the target tempo.

Shred is dead, that's what I was told, so I play the same thing others do but twice faster... Am I sick doctor??

An 'E' Phrygian Dominant scale is the same as an 'A' harmonic minor scale only the scale starts at a different point in the scale...

'A' harmonic minor scale:
A,B,C,D,E,F,G#,A

'E'Phrygian dominant scale:
E,F,G#,A,B,C,D,E

It's not that difficult. Also, there are tons and tons of book that will not only give you the scales, but also the tab, descriptions on how to define a scales and various ways to link multiple positions of these scales together. Read up!

By the way, shred is NOT dead...if this be the case, our musical culture is in a state of decline. Without technical proficiency there would be no advancement in music. In this case we might as well wrap goat skin around a tree stump and call it a drum. But on the other hand...is Britney Agu-Lo Simpson what one would call "advancement"???...hmmm...maybe shred IS dead...nah! Just like tie-die and rubics cubes - it'll fade away soon enough!

Originally posted by snimbkar
There is a STRONG tendency to rush things when trying to develop speed. And then things become self defeating. You MUST FIGHT the urge to rush. If you can play a scale at 120 bm 16ths, don't try to jump to 140bm and stumble through the same scale, you might be able to play it cleanly once or twice , but the key is consistency, you should be able to play the scale,lick , exercise etc... cleanly and consistently at any speed, then you'll know that you are on the right track. I think you'll find that the learning curve is steep initially but if you practice correctly, that curve will shorten before you know it. And remember to learn songs from "shredders" you admire. Once again, play the licks at your speed, and eventually you will reach the target tempo.

AMEN!

ButThen again everything goes in cycles. I think It's pretty pathetic that artists like Brittney Spears, In Sync , and The Backstreet boys are being called "rock stars" by today's media. At least in the U.S. they are, Europeans are way ahead of us Americans that way!

Well, last month, 40% of the record sales in France were made by a band that was created by a TV show (much like the Big Brother one). There are connoisseurs in Europe, but marketing and money is taking over. Jazz festivals are now becoming mainstream over here, and you don't see the same guys you used to see ten years ago... If the artist sells 100000 record, you know he's gonna be there.
You still have to look for underground artists to see someone really dedicated to his craft. But nowadays, festivals don't make artists, it's sales that make festivals programs...

Isn't that what we are seeing now? Today's "hottest" artists?

Brittney, Aguillera, Shakira etc... + "boy" bands, like in sync and so on.

Wasn't it about 20 years ago when record companies were going out and finding Tall , thin, big-haired bands with androgenous front men to sign and mass market? Forget that most of those bands (with few exceptions) put out a product that Nuno called "chocolate covered sh*t", All polished on the surface , but underneath there was garbage.

Now don't get me wrong, Brittney and Christina can SING, but you have to wonder, if they each weighed 200Lbs, would they have gotten signed? extremely doubtful.

Then you have truly amazing artists like PJ Harvey,Siouxsie, even Annie Lennox who get 0 publicity. (in the U.S. anyway)

It seems that once again, image has taken precedence over musicality. Oh one more thing, why is it that wmoen in their 20s, and 30s can gush about insync and how gorgeous they are but when a 30 something guy makes a comment about Brittney, he's perceived as a pervert/pedophile? Not fair is it?