i think i 'invented a new scale' it has 8 notes though


Fret spider
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Fret spider
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03/29/2008 2:48 pm
well i started this little idea by deciding i liked scales with diminished arpegios in them

so i started one on C. so i had the notes C Eflat Gflat A (1 m3 b5 bb7)

then i decide to start i minor arpegio on each of these notes (1 m3 5)

which means you get 4 extra notes, in total 8.

you have C Dflat Eflat E Gflat G A Bflat (1 b2 b3 #4 5 6 b7) i think

im finding it quite interesting to play around with as its got diminished arpegios and minor chords and even some majour ones pop out.

so what i was wonderin was is this actually a well know scale, and how has it been used in the past. i know of other 8 note scales like the bebop one ( i think thats how you spell it) but dont really know much about them. how does using such scales differ from the normal diatonic ones?
# 1
Fret spider
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Fret spider
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03/29/2008 6:36 pm
anyone?????????
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light487
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light487
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03/30/2008 12:29 pm
Paging Christopher Schlegel!

Is there a Christopher Schlegel in the building?

:)
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ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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03/30/2008 3:14 pm
Originally Posted by: Fret spideryou have C Dflat Eflat E Gflat G A Bflat ...


What you have there is a Half-Whole Diminished scale.

Observe the internal intervals: tone (HS) tone (WS) repeating ...

The formula is
1 (HS) flat2 (WS) flat3 (HS) maj3 (HS) sharp4 (WS) 5 (HS) min6 (WS) min7 (HS) 1

Since it has eight notes it is often called an octatonic scale.

It is in fact, as you mention used by bebop jazz guys. It is frequently used by jazz players to solo over various diminished chords. I personally find it useful for playing over dom7aug9 chords as the V or alt V chords (think tritone substitution - flat II substituted for V). Also, over dom7flat13 as V in minor key progressions.

I think the first examples of it can be found in some of the late romantics like Liszt. Modern classical composers like Stravinsky, Scriabin, Prokofiev also made use of it.
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ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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03/30/2008 3:16 pm
Ah, ha!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octatonic_scale

Hope this helps.
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Fret spider
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Fret spider
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03/30/2008 3:31 pm
thanks you very much
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ren
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ren
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03/31/2008 10:32 am
By way of coincidence, next month's GT newsletter may have a scale of the month article on this very scale... ;)

Check out my music, video, lessons & backing tracks here![br]https://www.renhimself.com

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Fret spider
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Fret spider
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04/01/2008 10:49 am
wow i feel like a visionary ;)
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tommaso.zillio
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tommaso.zillio
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04/01/2008 1:21 pm
Originally Posted by: Fret spider
I had the notes C Eflat Gflat A (1 m3 b5 bb7)
then i decide to start i minor arpegio on each of these notes (1 m3 5)
you have C Dflat Eflat E Gflat G A Bflat (1 b2 b3 #4 5 6 b7) i think
im finding it quite interesting to play around with as its got diminished arpegios and minor chords and even some majour ones pop out.


That's probably the coolest way I've sen to construct the H-W diminished scale :) .
Some considerations:
By construction, you have a minor arpeggio from C, Eb, Gb, A.
Always by construction, you have a diminished arpeggio from the same notes.
Additionally, as you mention, you have also a major arpeggio from the same notes - which is an unexpected bonus (that's for triads. If you add the 7th you have a C7 arpeggio). This means that this scale can fit, if played properly, on C major, C minor and C dimimished at the same time. (Played properly = depending on the chord you're playing on, do not stress dissonant notes too much. i.e. if played over Cmajor do not stress Eb too much unless you resolve it on E. Same for Gb and G.). And of course on the dominant altered chords as Christopher mention. Truly a scale to experiment with!
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Fret spider
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04/01/2008 3:26 pm
thaks for the advice tommaso.zillio.

thats nice to know i clearly hadnt looked closely enough at the scale to notice some of those details. i will have to do some expermentation when i get home.

and im glad u like the way i came up with the scale. but it does show the way im tryin to see things in terms or varius arpegios at the moment rather than a cloction of marks on a fret board.

again thanks for the advice. any other things u notice about it would be apreciated.
# 10

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