Stringing Modes

Hi anyone/everyone, I'd like a question answered about modes.

I have been studing the modes in Christopher Schlegel's section and a question came up.

Is it more advantagous to learn the pattern of each mode separately conpared to all strung together?

When looking at the 7 modes strung together I notice the same patterns I have been useing playing the pentatonic scale but missing the 4th and 7th notes.
If I incorporate those two notes in the scale I already know I'm home free.

Or am I ? Should I memorize each shape? And what would be the benifits?

Mike

Hey, Mike. Welcome to the site.

Originally Posted by: Mike PiersimoniIs it more advantagous to learn the pattern of each mode separately conpared to all strung together?[/quote]
Do both. :) I think learning them one at a time is a good start, but ultimately you need to see how they form an integrated fretboard pattern. Make sense?
[QUOTE=Mike Piersimoni]
When looking at the 7 modes strung together I notice the same patterns I have been useing playing the pentatonic scale but missing the 4th and 7th notes.

Good observation. You are exactly right. However, there are only 5 pentatonic shapes and 7 modes. I've seen this cause confusion for some students. All of these fretboard patterns ultimately work together; they do not contradict one another. So, the problem is keeping them straight in your mind and being able to visualize them as necessary (depending on what you are playing or trying to do).

You have to figure out what approach to breaking down the patterns works for you. You need to break them down to the point where you can see them individually and then start to see how those parts hook together into larger shapes.

Have a look at these tutorials:
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=296
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=419

Nice post C, I like how the reference is made to 5 Pentatonic shapes compared to 7 Modes.
When the 4th and 7th intervals are incorporated in the 5 Pentatonic shapes, it offers the 2 extra positions needed to make the 7 Modes.
Learning the patterns of all modes allows you to see how the patterns share with each other from Major scales, minor scales, Pentatonic scales and the Modes.
Example; Take the interval pattern of the B Phrygian mode starting on the 6th string, 7th fret and follow thru on all strings.
Continue using the Phrygian pattern that takes place on the 5th string, 7th fret, only this time starting it from the 5th string, 7th fret (The E Note) and continue the same interval pattern down the strings. This is the E Aeolian mode. All of the patterns relate to each other when started from a different note in the Key.
Knowing the interval function of each mode gives you the ability to understand how the structure works, especially when using them in Parallel form.

Hi guy's, I'm new too.
Just wanted to thank both CSchegel, and especially Dvenetian for the posts on mode application! I've been trying to figure out how to incorporate modal playing in practical application and due to reading these posts over a couple of times I can see shapes in the distant fog. I still have lots of work to do in learning all the notes and having instant recall, but I'm slowly starting to get it. Thanks again. E :D

what i like to do, is pick a certain key, and go through all the modes in that key using every sequence i know, but lets say your in the key of c, the mode on the first fret would be lidian, and the next mode is mixolidian, instead of going straight up to mixolidian from lidian, i like to skip to aolean, which is on the 3rd fret, then go back to mixolidian and then to locrian and so on and so forth.


i also like to run through all the notes in a key focusing on one string at a time, this helps you learn the entire key, so you arent limited to one mode at a time.

James, I must be really dense, because your post doesn't seem to make any sense.

If you're playing from C to C, major scale, it's Ionian, not Lydian. Lydian would be the same notes in C major, just starting and ending on F. (F,G,A,B,C,D,E,F)

And I've never just gone up the modes in my playing, besides for warm ups.

In actual playing, changing modes quickly will just sound messy to the average listener. That only works if you've got a pedal tone in the bass and a very high class, well-informed audience.

I think what he was implying was if you were playing C in all its diatonic form, was play it all over the neck and not just on the C ionian shape at the 8th fret. Starting at the 1st fret you'll get an F lydian with C as its perfect 5th. Skip to A relative minor/aelion on the 5th fret and go back down a whole step 3rd fret to G with C as its subdominant key and jump to a diminished sounding locrian on the 7th fret. Playing it that way does in a way help visually show you where everyshape pattern falls in relation to that particular key. You know what they say bout learning scales is to learn them in all its form so its a good thing.

Ahhh, thanks for expounding.

Im not sure if this has been covered but rarely does anyone discuss octaves. Learning modes in octaves is a good way of stringing it all together. It also makes it easier to see the degrees, whole step/half step thats required to make up each mode. The trick here is to play the 3 note per string method. So if your in G major, the lowest octave for this would be to play g, a, b / first, middle, pinky on the 6th string. c, d, e / first, middle, pinky on the 5th string), f#, g / first finger and a half-step slide 4th string. From there your all set for the next octave, just remember to allow an extra halfstep shift up for the f# , g notes on the 2nd string, and from there go on to the third octave, same notes, same shape but end with a f# tap/slide to g on fret 15. Economics come into play too in that you dont have to struggle to remember that many shapes, obviously if you start with the 2nd degree 'a' in this same shape you get the dorian mode and if you begin with 'c' still in this shape youll be in lydian, 'd' mixolydian and so forth.

ok, hope thats not too confusing.

Originally Posted by: dreamstateIm not sure if this has been covered but rarely does anyone discuss octaves. Learning modes in octaves is a good way of stringing it all together. It also makes it easier to see the degrees, whole step/half step thats required to make up each mode. The trick here is to play the 3 note per string method...

A good point. I covered it in these tutorials:

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=419
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=462

Hey thanks CSchlegel, great that you covered it. I just feel octaves been mostly overlooked during the learning process. Ok heres another that might interest some. I'm sure most players know that if you were to play all the notes in its natural position shows you all 7 modes laid-out on the fret board but I think most arent aware that if you play all the unnatural notes (# b) in there respective positions gives you the 5 major/minor pentatonic patterns. Its easier to see with the graphic diagram that I've attached.
Black dots for the regular modes and yellow for pentatonic.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2387/2262692390_5630d10a76.jpg?v=0

ps: hope this graphic appears.

Originally Posted by: dreamstateHey thanks CSchlegel ...[/quote]
Welcome. :)
[QUOTE=dreamstate]Ok heres another that might interest some ... the 5 major/minor pentatonic patterns.

I was able to see it. Nice fretboard image. Thanks.

I covered integrated pentatonic shapes (the associated diatonic notes) here:
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=296
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=185

Modes are here BTW:
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=370

I am currently working on another tutorial designed to show how pentatonic and diatonic scales contain chord tones and therefore how to learn to use them improvise (take a solo or lead for beginners).

Oh yeah, chord tones, those triads, every 1 3 5 tone that make up the chord. The root, voice and dominant notes. You could point them in the right direction but frankly speaking theres no set pattern for improvs and its entirely on each individual to come up with his/her own ideas or we wouldnt call them improvisations right?

Originally Posted by: dreamstateOh yeah, chord tones, those triads, every 1 3 5 tone that make up the chord. The root, voice and dominant notes.[/quote]
Just to clarify here. Those terms aren't exactly equivalent.

The 1st of a chord is the root.
Any note (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, etc.) of the chord is a voice in the chord that is part of the overall melodic thread of the music.
The 5th of a chord is just the 5th, the term dominant refers to an entire triadic chord built on the 5th note of a scale.

The word dominant implies a Tonic - Dominant relationship (I-V) that is crucial to understanding the concept of chord progressions, voice leading, and ultimately Tonality (tonal systems).
[QUOTE=dreamstate]You could point them in the right direction but frankly speaking theres no set pattern for improvs and its entirely on each individual to come up with his/her own ideas or we wouldnt call them improvisations right?

I think you have a false alternative suggested in your question. The way you have phrased it seems as if the choice is between:

1. Providing a right direction.
OR
2. No available set pattern.

Consider this analogy: you must learn some specific language (spelling, definitions, gammar, syntax) in order to be literate. But that does not in any way restrict or hamper your ability to write about whatever topic you want. In fact, the more you learn, the more you are able to express yourself.

Make sense? :)

I apologize for that, think I read your message wrongly and I probably did not word it right too but by 'right direction' I meant you could point out where to solo and not stray from the root and by 'set pattern' simply means a solo thats been worked out or more accurately one thats already been done.

thanks fo clarifying the point about voicings, guess I was looking at it in its simplistic form in that if you barre a major or minor chord, the third is infact the voice or color for it.