Influences vs. Plagerization

I am new to writing songs. In fact I wrote my first one this morning when I woke up. I think it is halfway decent and with some tweaking it might be a decent song lyrically (I am still trying to figure out what chord progression I want.)

The thing is it sounds a bit like a song I heard a few days ago. I guess I am having a moral dilemma. I don't feel I copied the song but you can definitely see that it is heavily influenced by something.

As a song writer where do you draw the line? I want to have my own voice but I am in love with music and listen to it quite a bit. I don't see how someone can write something totally original every time out of the gate.

I'm not going to scrap the song. I'm going to figure out the chord progression and keep tweaking it as it is good practice.

I was just wondering if any of you have run into this and thought, "should I really be writing this? Am I copping a groove from a different artist?" What was your answer to this question if it has come up?


Thanks

It's hard to say. The only way to really test whether your song's plaguarized is to go to court with it . A song is copyrighted in essence as soon as it's been put to paper but you have to prove that you were the one who originally wrote it. I think generally, most songwriters stick to the honor system cause the last thing you want to be known as is a ripoff artists but on occasion there's been songs that have gone to court and lost out because they were too similar to the originals. I can't remember the songs names but one was a George Harrison tune called My Sweet Lord which was almost a direct ripoff of another song. John Lennon also used to take the music to other peoples songs and write new ones too them. And Tears for Fears almost copied a Beatles tune note for note. Whether or not they're considered copyright violations though, can only be proven in court. And most people don't bother because of the costs involved.

It depends on how similar the lyrics are...if their are specific lines copied then you might want to change them because that's over the line a bit. Also, if it has the same meaning/"story line" (just with different words) then you probally need to change a little bit there. It's okay for lyrics to be influenced by other lyrics, but if someone hears your lyrics and automatically bring up another song, that's when there needs to be some changes.

When it comes to the chord progression, just make sure it doesn't sound a bit like the other song. Even if the lyrical meaning is similar, if the chord progression is different, then it's an original from you.

When I first started writing I ran into this probally also. It didn't take that long for me to grow out of it though (that might be different for other people...I don't know). Once you start writing more, you esablish your own originality. Just keep writing and remember it's okay for your song to be influenced by something else, just don't let it be the same (like the advice I said above..). Good luck!

Look, this happens to me all the time. I write a song, and figure out I jipped it from somebody. It's usually either Blink-182, Green Day, and Rise Against sometimes. And theres no way you can do anything in music without it being done. You make a chord progression and it's probably already been done. But it's also easy to tweak it and make it your own but at the same time have people see your influence. The whole idea with going to court is dumb. The only way thats going to happen is if you really stole the song, i.e. taking the same lyrics and chords. Trust me I've done a lot of stuff and it's been taken from other artists but I tweak and its fine. But it was funny, my guitar teachers was the guitarists at a wedding, and he was playing this really nice song he wrote, and then after the ceremony this guy comes up to him and says, "That's an odd variation of "Blackbird", but I liked it. =)" And he was just thinking Oh ****... lol. See theirs a difference, if you tweak it so it isn't the song with a different variation it's ok, of course if you do it on accident like my teacher its fine, less you "accidentally" steal the lryics ;);). And don't worry, no band is going to sue you for accidentally tweaking their tune. :P

Originally Posted by: jkuervoI am new to writing songs. In fact I wrote my first one this morning when I woke up. I think it is halfway decent and with some tweaking it might be a decent song lyrically (I am still trying to figure out what chord progression I want.)

The thing is it sounds a bit like a song I heard a few days ago. I guess I am having a moral dilemma. I don't feel I copied the song but you can definitely see that it is heavily influenced by something.

As a song writer where do you draw the line? I want to have my own voice but I am in love with music and listen to it quite a bit. I don't see how someone can write something totally original every time out of the gate.

I'm not going to scrap the song. I'm going to figure out the chord progression and keep tweaking it as it is good practice.

I was just wondering if any of you have run into this and thought, "should I really be writing this? Am I copping a groove from a different artist?" What was your answer to this question if it has come up?


Thanks

Plagiarizing pertaining to music is to steal any ideas or lyrics or music or sound or even arrangement of a certain composition. A title, riff, or lick cannot be copyright. You may use a line from a public domain song or a few bars, but not from a copyright piece of material. For instance, you may title you song “Heart Break Hotel”, but it cannot have any of the same lines or melody or even meaning (idea). You can use the walk-down or slide, etc.

I had a song once in which the chorus sounded somewhat like another popular song. I never realized it until a friend mentioned it. I added a few minor chords and a 7th and it changed it completely and I think made it better. You can to the same with your song. Just make a few changes or tempo to where it doesn’t sound like the other song and it will probably make your song even better. I really don’t see why you would want to use something that someone else came up with.

Unless you are playing or selling the song for money or your song becomes a great success making millions, you will not be challenged. And truthfully, if you aren’t making millions, what’s the difference. You are not going to be suit for what you make playing it Saturday night at the local honky tonk. And if you are making millions, what’s the difference, settle out of court and give them a few million.

Just a note: One of the best lyricists, Woody Guthrie, took his music from other songs. The song “This Land is Your Land” music was taken from an old Carter Family Christian song. I don’t remember the name, but Guthrie’s song became much more popular than the Carter Family song. I don’t know if he was ever taken to court (I doubt it) or if the Carter Family gave him permission or if the tune was public domain. He used other songs, such as, “Walbash Cannonball” and many others.

That's the one I was trying to remember...the Beatles "Twist and Shout" is a direct ripoff of "La Bamba"

This is a little off topic but another thing I was gonna mention is take a look at the usenet newsgroups for bootlegs. They're constantly posting demo's and outtakes from famous songs.
I was just listening to a really early version of Stairway to Heaven and it has a completely different chorus with different chords. Another one with an early version of Immigrant Song by Led Zepplin with the vocals sung in a different timing at the beginning. A home demo of Pete Townsend practicing guitar.
An early instrumental version of Us and Them by Pink Floyd. Etc etc..

It kinda gives you an idea how the ideas progressed along the way as they were writing the songs and how just a few simple chord or tempo changes can make or break a song.
The home demos also show you how the guitar 'greats' sound when they're just at home by themselves with a tape deck...kinda weird to hear them making mistakes and screwing up just like everybody else.

I know exactly what your talking about jkuervo. I play lots of classical and beat acoustic guitar music (Tommy Emmanuel, Andy Mckee, that sort of thing) and I will spend HOURS AND HOURS working out little ditties and riffs, then turning on my Mp3 and realising it was just some stupid flamin Mckee song that I heard a week ago!!! (Although that music is not stupid, it is just aggrovating).

The best you can do is either tweak it to a stage through different chord progressions, modes, solo's, what ever you can to make it a little more innovative then the original song you heard... Top yourself and see if you can put a creative shine to that metaphorical apple.

Originally Posted by: Kevin TaylorI was just listening to a really early version of Stairway to Heaven and it has a completely different chorus with different chords.

Jimi Page ripped off the first part of this song from a band called Spirit. I think the song is Taurus.

I guess the bottom line is it's not plagerisim unless you get caught.

Originally Posted by: EdossI know exactly what your talking about jkuervo. I play lots of classical and beat acoustic guitar music (Tommy Emmanuel, Andy Mckee, that sort of thing) and I will spend HOURS AND HOURS working out little ditties and riffs, then turning on my Mp3 and realising it was just some stupid flamin Mckee song that I heard a week ago!!! (Although that music is not stupid, it is just aggrovating).

The best you can do is either tweak it to a stage through different chord progressions, modes, solo's, what ever you can to make it a little more innovative then the original song you heard... Top yourself and see if you can put a creative shine to that metaphorical apple.

I really like Tommy Emmanuel and Andy McKee. What do you think about Paul Keaggy?