I Wanna Play With The Band

I've been playing off and on for many years and every time I sat down with another guitarist to play, I didn't know how to "play" with them, so I would always quit shortly thereafter.

I decided to try again and my goal is to be able to play with my church band. But I need to be good enough to walk on and play with them. There is an organist, pianist, drummer, and bass guitar player. They don't use any sheet music.

I know all my "open" chords and pentatonic scales and understand the "major" and "minor" scale structures. BUT I TRIED TO PLAY WITH THEM LAST WEEKEND A LITTLE AND FELT LIKE ALL THE LESSONS I TOOK OVER THE YEARS WERE WORTHLESS. HOW CAN I LEARN TO PLAY WITH A "BAND" OR JUST WITH ANOTHER MUSICIAN WOULD BE GREAT.

Help Me.

Maybe learn the songs that they play..... Your church band couldn't possibly just improvise the whole time, they have planned out songs. Ask them to teach you the songs, or give you tab or some sheet music. Learn alot of scales...

First, don't be afraid to make mistakes. You are human as are they. Trust me they will make mistakes as well. They just cover them up better and quickly.

2nd, when you do make a mistake, dont' EVER stop playing. Ever Ever Ever. You have to move on and stay with the rest of the band.

With time you'll learn what they are doing and you'll make fewer and fewer mistakes. You'll also learn to anticipate certain things like vocal queues and riff queues. These will help you remember what to do next.


As stated earlier, you need to get the music they play and learn it. Practice each day. Perhaps you can get a recording of the band and use it as a backing track.

Playing with others, IMO is the really rewarding part of being able to play.

Good luck.

I appreciate the info. I have one of the recordings and I stasrted to listen and try to play to it. It's easy finding the melody and playing it but I don't know how to find the chords to play for the rhythm. Any tips? Here's a few Q's

1. Is there a way to find out what chords will work with the song just by knowing what notes the melody follows?

2. Is the I-IV-V the "rule" when I find out which key I'm in or could there be other notes available (which would make my plight more difficult)?

3. Do you have a "golden nugget" piece of advice that will lead in on the quickest path to being able to play with a band and play good (lead & rhythm)?

Thanks for all the help!

To figure out what chords they are playing, follow the bass player. He should be on a root note at some point during the chord changes.

Originally Posted by: bbreon75
3. Do you have a "golden nugget" piece of advice that will lead in on the quickest path to being able to play with a band and play good (lead & rhythm)?

I'll give you the same advice my old band teacher used to give us in jazz band. "A wrong note played timidly is a wrong note. A wrong note played with authority is an interpretation."

not the best advice ever, but it's helped me a few times here and there

Psalmcaster is on to a winner. Listen to the song, and just try to pick out the root note of each chord and go from there. Also, try a forum search on 'Diatonic Harmony' - I think that will help you.

Once you know what the chords are, you can use the Diatonic Harmony stuff to figure out which key the piece is in, and then you'll know what scale(s) would fit for lead / fills etc.

If the songs in question are well known, it might be that you can cheat a bit and find tab on the internet for them...

Originally Posted by: bbreon75It's easy finding the melody and playing it but I don't know how to find the chords to play for the rhythm. Any tips?[/quote]
Ask the people playing the songs, "What are the chords in this song?"

Then write them down and look at them while you practice them along with the recording on your own or with the band.

Originally Posted by: bbreon75
1. Is there a way to find out what chords will work with the song just by knowing what notes the melody follows?[/quote]
Yes, it's a matter of knowing harmonic possibilities.

If we build a chord (a triadic sequence) on every note of the major scale using only notes of the scale in the same pattern. I informally call this the "Leapfrog Principle" because you start on a note (C) and "leap over" the next note (D) to use the following note in building the chord (E). Leap again over the (F) and use the (G). Hence, the first chord is built of the notes C-E-G. This is the basic principle known as Triadic Harmony.

C - E - G = 1st scale degree - 3rd scale degree - 5th scale degree = the "one chord" of the C major scale. So, the chord built on the first scale degree of the C major scale is a C major chord.

The distance (the interval) between the notes of the chord gives us the formula for all major chords: 1st note of chord, 4 half steps (or 2 whole steps), 3rd note of chord, 3 half steps (or 1 and a half steps), 5th note of chord.

The formula for minor chords is: 1st note of chord, 3 half steps (or 1 and a half steps), 3rd note of chord, 4 half steps (or 2 whole steps), 5th note of chord.

The formula for diminished chords is: 1st note of chord, 3 half steps (or 1 and a half steps), 3rd note of chord, 3 half steps (or 1 and a half steps), 5th note of chord.

Now we now all three types of triad chords we will encounter in major scale harmony. So we build a chord on every note of the C major scale. Here is the list of all the chords:

C-E-G = 1-3-5 (the "1 chord") C major chord
D-F-A = 2-4-6 (the "2 chord") D minor chord
E-G-B = 3-5-7 (the "3 chord") E minor chord
F-A-C = 4-6-1 (the "4 chord") F major chord
G-B-D = 5-7-2 (the "5 chord") G major chord
A-C-E = 6-1-3 (the "6 chord") A minor chord
B-D-F = 7-2-4 (the "7 chord") B diminished chord

Notice that every chord has 3 notes - its own 1st, 3rd & 5th unto itself. This is a crucial point: every note in the major scale has 2 separate and simultaneous functions.

1. Its position in the scale.
2. Its position in any given chord.

E|-------------------1--3------|
B|----------1--3--5--3--5------|
G|-0--2--4--2--4--5--4--5------|
D|-2--3--5--3--5--7------------|
A|-3--5--7---------------------|
E|-----------------------------|
C--D--E--F--G--A--B--C

In music theory we use Roman Numerals to number the chords - usually, upper case for Major chords, lower case for Minor (and diminished). We also refer to the chords by these names which relate to their function in a chord progression (written to match the C major scale which we harmonized above):

I - "1 chord" is Tonic (or Root) - C major (I)
ii -"2 chord" is Sub-Dominant - D minor (ii)
iii - "3 chord" is Intermediate (or Mediant) - E minor (iii)
IV - "4 chord" is Sub-Dominant - F major (IV)
V - "5 chord" is Dominant - G major (V)
vi - "6 chord" is Intermediate (or Sub-Mediant) - A minor (vi)
vii dim - "7 chord" is Dominant - B diminished (vii dim)

Therefore, a Tonic chord is a chord built on the 1st note of the scale.
Therefore, a Dominant chord is a chord built on the 5th note of a scale.

So if the melody note of a song is an E it could belong to the C major (the I chord) or the E minor (the iii chord) or the A minor (the vi chord). But, it could also belong to the F major chord and be the major 7th (a IV maj7 chord).

I am currently working on a brief overview of music theory containing info on diatonic and functional harmony and will post it soon. For now, look here:
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=166
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=167
http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10978

Learning and understanding this info will certainly help in the future. But simply asking for the chords will be a lot more straight forward and more efficient. That way you can have the chords and see how and why they work. Simply knowing all the harmonic possibilities is not a guarantee you will be able to pick the same chords that any given musician will also pick.
[QUOTE=bbreon75]
2. Is the I-IV-V the "rule" when I find out which key I'm in or could there be other notes available (which would make my plight more difficult)?

Although that is a very common progression it is by no means the only one. For the most common exception consider that many songs use I-ii-V. Also, some songs don't even start on the root, and use ii-V-I.
[QUOTE=bbreon75]
3. Do you have a "golden nugget" piece of advice that will lead in on the quickest path to being able to play with a band and play good (lead & rhythm)?

You have to know what to play and be able to play it in time with the music. Therefore, ask (politely!) for the chords and practice playing them in time with the music.

Hope this helps. Let us know how it goes.

Haha weird. You figured out melody, but not the chords, lol. See usually I find out the chords, and since your singing over chords, your usually singing certain notes of the chords and that makes it easier for me. And yes, usually when I see songs, the 1 4 5 are how I figure out which key it's in. Helps me solo better. Here's a little advice for figuring out your chords. When you sing over a chord, obviously you're not gonna be singing the same note over and over while your playing the chord, you change the note to different notes. But you can still tell if your on a chord, you can hear the chord being sung over and when it's being changed to another chord. So pick up your guitar. Strum the E chord 5 times, then the A chord 5 times, and the B chord times(1, 4, 5 chords) and hum over each one creating a melody. Try to hear how it sounds when you change from one chord to another throughout the melody. Also to help practice that, just find songs you like that have some nice chord progressions and try figure out when they change chords in the song, then go find the chords from like ultimate-guitar.com and see if you we're write about the chord changes(when it's simply just chords usually they supply lyrics).

just jamming with another player can be hard if ur not in sync so try to learn as wide a range of music as possible and u can really learn to jam with anyone

Originally Posted by: CSchlegel So we build a chord on every note of the C major scale. Here is the list of all the chords:

C-E-G = 1-3-5 (the "1 chord") C major chord
D-F-A = 2-4-6 (the "2 chord") D minor chord
E-G-B = 3-5-7 (the "3 chord") E minor chord
F-A-C = 4-6-1 (the "4 chord") F major chord
G-B-D = 5-7-2 (the "5 chord") G major chord
A-C-E = 6-1-3 (the "6 chord") A minor chord
B-D-F = 7-2-4 (the "7 chord") B diminished chord

Yeh.. I got this rhythm rhyme in my head for that, it goes: major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, minor. Say it out loud and it really has a nice rhythmic quality to it. The diminished is not forgotten about, it's just one of those things that you need to have in "exceptions" basket.

Question.. Do you actually bother to play it as a diminished? I certainly don't.. it really sounds horrible to me when I am creating a chord progression that includes the 7th chord. I generally play it as a minor 7th so it still has a bit of harmonic tension... may be I am just missing the point of a diminished chord and haven't found a musical groove to use it in.. yet..

I have actually. My guitar teacher made me make a progression in Cmin I think. It went Cmin, Fmin, Eb,Dhalfdiminished. But I rarelyplay the minors as minors, usually I play em as majors :p

Originally Posted by: light487Question.. Do you actually bother to play it as a diminished?...

Depends what I'm doing - I quite often play notes that aren't strictly in key. Keep in mind though that for the seventh chord harmony the diminished chord is replaced by a m7b5 or 'half diminished' chord...

Originally Posted by: light487Do you actually bother to play it as a diminished? I certainly don't.. it really sounds horrible to me when I am creating a chord progression that includes the 7th chord.

Yes, of course. But it depends upon what style of music I am playing and how I use it.

Think about this first. In most pop musical style (rock, pop, blues, etc.) when I melody contains the 7th major scale degree, they rarely build a vii diminished chord upon it. 99% of the time they build a V chord on it. The 7th major scale degree is after all the major 3rd chord tone of the dominant chord. And the 7th scale degree is the leading tone which usually leads to a tonic resolution. Make sense?

So, let's think in C major:

E|-0-------------------|
B|-1--3--1-------------|
G|-0--0--0-------------|
D|-2--0--2-------------|
A|-3--2--3-------------|
E|---------------------|
C G C
I V I

So my 7th scale degree is the bass note of the V chord; making it a first inversion G major chord.

Now try this one with a rock style overdrive tone:

E|----------------|
B|----------------|
G|----------------|
D|-5--5--5--5--5--|
A|-3--3--2--2--3--|
E|----------------|
C C G G C
I I V V I

Just power chord diads, but sounds great when trying to get the 7th degree into the notes. Note that the G chord technically doesn't have it's root note G, but it is still functioning as the G V chord.

Now having said that, I do use the vii dim a lot, but usually when playing classical or jazz. This is a classical example in G major:

E|------------------3----------|
B|-5--5---------3---3----------|
G|-5--3---------5---4----------|
D|-5--5---------4---5----------|
A|-3--4---------5--------------|
E|------------------3----------|
C C#dim D7 G
IV vii dim/V V7 I

And a jazz example in C major.

E|-----------------------------|
B|-5------5----------5------4--|
G|-4------3----------5------4--|
D|-5------5----------3------3--|
A|-3------4----------5---------|
E|--------------------------3--|
Cmaj7 C#dim Dm9 G7b13
I vii dim/ii ii min9 V7b13

Hope this helps.

Yeh I love going from a G to Cm9 to D#m9 to Dm9.. I never bothered to know the name of the chords back then of course. Fingering the diminished chord like that has made it easier to hear the proper chord. Playing a C Major then a Bdim then going back to the C Major again does make sense but it has a very specific motion to it.. a lot of tension that needs to be resolved. Sounds good though, which is a first and muting that top-E string is a fun challenge. :)

Now that I have a decent fingering that I can imprint on my brain, I will have something to work with. I notice also that playing the Edim chord is the easiest with that fingering, since you can play ALL the strings.. :)

lol I was going to post something about chord scales but Shlegel beat me to everything I'd have said. Very good posts, and very useful.

regarding playing with a band.
1) you can't improvise as well if you don't know the underlying chord progression. So you really should focus on learning them however you do it. Mainly I focus on what "mode" is this chord progression? Is this minor or Dorian? So you don't make the mistake of hitting that natural 6 when it should be sharped. Is this mrjor of mixolydian? Best way to know this is to apply the chord scale to the chords being played over and figure out where your tonic is. A good rule of thumb is if the tonic is minor and the IV is major, you are really playing Dorian. That's just how I look at it though.

2) it's going to be much easier to improvise if you already know some songs of that same genre of music to use as a "template". If the backing music is a lot of I-IV-V's find guitarists you like that are playing over those and learn some of their licks. The point here is to build up your "Phrasing". What notes does (your favorite guitar player here) end his licks on mostly? How does that note make you feel (resolved or tense?). And incorporate that into your soloing. I find that I like to start licks on the 1st, 5th, or 7th scale degree, and end licks on the 2nd, 4th, dorian 6th (when playing dorian). This is useful for creating tension. When you start a lick on the root and end on the root, 3rd, or 5th every time your solos can become very bland, and not seem to move around enough to be interesting. That's not to say you should use this as comprehensive list of how to play. Blues solos land on the 3rd scale degree frequently and it's a poweful note when not overused.

3) practice building solos, and notating solo structure by other people. Improv is great but 3 minutes of licks can be tiring for anyone listening. Listen to some of your favorite solos. Make notes on paper (or notepad.exe) of 3 or 4 solos. Write down things like:
measures 1-4 slow melodic notes, low on the neck starting on 1st, ending on 3rd
measures 5-8 same melody but an octave higher
measures 9-10 fast legato lick starting on 3rd ending on 6th
measures 11-12 hendrix style bends and pull offs in minor pent shape
etc..

this will give you a good mental template of what to do when you play so you arent' just playing scales for 3 minutes. This is what I do but I'm an amateur and I play mostly improv. Hope this helps buddy.

Just a suggestion, but how about recording the band next time they play and learning the songs at home. That's basically what I did when I joined a new band. First thing I'd do is either record them or get a set list and buy the songs so I could learn them how they were originally played.