Tell me why...

Why are there so many groups of people against Jews? Or any for that matter?

Because all through history people find it much easier to pick groups of people as being the reason for all their problems, rather than blaming themselves. This might sound a little too simple, but it's the basic reason. In the case of Jews, it is due in large amounts to whose who controlled wealth, and people like Hitler encouraging anti Jewish sentiment for largely financial reasons, that the average person didn't know about. Hate of any group of people is entirely irrational, and it is something that is one of the most horrible things that continues to exist. The idea that you can blame someone for problems simply because they were born in a different setting to you would be laughable, if it weren't so real.

Any time you hear, or read, a speech about US and THEM, you know what kind of evil is afoot.

Some cultural cliches exist because they have a grain of truth to them. That doesn't justify hatred of whole groups of people.

Even when an individual does something truly despicable, hatred doesn't solve anything.

hmmm.... one English king expelled Jews because he didn't want to pay his debts...
Persecution of any race is wrong (like you needed telling)... no matter what "reason", most of the time it's irrational fear of the unknown...
The media is a very powerful tool in this...

I'm a little worried that the open forum is becomming a little too political... Anyone else?

yeah, its sad
instead of talking about music and guitars we talk about things that dont belong here,
leave politics out of music

i could spend hours here writing the history of the modern hate of jews, but i guess most of us know it anyway, so i keep it to myself
i think people started to hate us from the beginning of the dark ages, because we were almost the only non christians around at some point, and the others like gypsies almost disappeared during the years or became christians

anyway.. i was wondering why did you ask this question?

Its simple really. Every major terrorist group I have heard of in my entire life hated jews. (And yes, I consider hitler to have been a terrorist). Ive even met and talked to terrorists online (ppl like members of the LoL, Phreaks, and so forth) and EVERY SINGLE ONE I have talked to hated jews. It seems to be everywhere...if I were a jew I would be quite paranoid. And I like asking questions becuase I love finding out how screwed up my thoughts of what life are.

Originally posted by blackrose
Why are there so many groups of people against Jews? Or any for that matter?

All these people are talking about symptoms, but to really see the reason for the widespread hatred of the Jews you have to go back . . . way back about 4 thousand years, to the Old Testament, and look at the beliefs and history of the Jews and Arabs.

According to the Old Testament, the Jews invaded Palestine and expelled the Arab peoples. So that's reason number one. Reason number two is that according to the Pentateuch (the writings of Moses that eventually became the first five books of the Bible) the Jews are the chosen people of god. And they made sure that all the surrounding peoples knew this. This is why Hitler hated the Jews. He thought that the Germans were the superior race and the people of god, and he wanted to exterminate the competition.

And the Jews hate the Arabs because of their beliefs too. According to the Koran, Abraham, Joshua, and Moses were all just prophets leading up to the great prophet Muhammad. And of course there's the whole thing with the Temple of the Rock that happens to be sitting on the former site of the Temple Mount, which was destroyed by the Romans in AD 70.

It doesn't matter what you think about the Bible, or if it's true. All these things are externally and independently verified historical facts.

The vicious cycle continues.

the christians hated us since the christianity became the official religion of the rome empire, claiming we killed jesus, and they also claimed that now the christians are the real sons of israel, while jews betrayed god, and no longer "the choosen people".
The real fact is that jesus never did realy said something against judaism, also he never started a new religion
he was born as a jew and died as one (another fact that the german racist during WWII somehow missed out)

lots of people out there think that judaism is about revenge
while christianity is a peacfull religion, but judaism rulles about "eye under eye" were not something new the jews came up with. this system of rulles was also in babylon and all over mesopotamia. Actualy the bible (im talking about the jewish part, i dont know its english name)
is a very sociable code of laws, including many laws that urge rich people to help the poor, the strangers that are comming to live with the jews, and other weak members of the society

Originally posted by Zeppelin
... also he never started a new religion...

Ever hear of christianity? Yeah, he started that...

when???
when did he come and say "today im starting a new religion
Christianity will be its name"
when did he said it????!]

the guy died and 100 years later jews again started to to call themselves christians , and started to walk around the rome empire and to spread their religion

I think the part of the bible your talking about is "the old testement" although i'm not sure...

If you bothered to read my post, it's called the Pentateuch.

all i can say is that i love israel as if it were my own country, because i love and fear GOD. and as i understand it, jews are GOD'S chosen people. 'nuff said'

Originally posted by Zeppelin
when???
when did he come and say "today im starting a new religion
Christianity will be its name"
when did he said it????!]

the guy died and 100 years later jews again started to to call themselves christians , and started to walk around the rome empire and to spread their religion

Read the new testament. Jesus plainly stated the basic doctrines of christianity while he was still alive and made it very clear that his teachings were the only way to heaven. And Jews started walking around calling themselves christians not 100 years later but less than a year after his death and ressurection (historians argue as to the number of days)and went around the Roman empire starting on the day of pentacost...but you probably have never heard of that because its rather clear you dont know what you're talking about. And although the name christianity as I already mentioned is being in dispute as to its exact origin, the christian beliefs have always been around starting at the beginning of Jesus' ministry.

[Edited by blackrose on 10-19-2001 at 04:54 PM]

the time after his death doesnt change anything, all i know is that according to historical facts jesus was born as a jew, and died as one.
I can argue with you till tommorow's morning but jesus dint invent anything new.. All those anti revenge talks appear also in the old testament, in its law part which is the Pentateuch. Even if he was a son of god and a prophet, still he didnt say anything that didnt appear in the Pentateuch, his followers are the people who started the new religion not he himself.

Originally posted by Zeppelin
the time after his death doesnt change anything, all i know is that according to historical facts jesus was born as a jew, and died as one.
I can argue with you till tommorow's morning but jesus dint invent anything new.. All those anti revenge talks appear also in the old testament, in its law part which is the Pentateuch. Even if he was a son of god and a prophet, still he didnt say anything that didnt appear in the Pentateuch, his followers are the people who started the new religion not he himself.

Yes, he was Jewish. Thats a given fact. And if you read the bible (as I already advised), he DID come up with what was new ideas at the time. And his followers only believed what he already had told them...they didnt make it up. You need to update yer sources or something with those crackheaded ideas of yours...

Originally posted by MorseRulez
all i can say is that i love israel as if it were my own country, because i love and fear GOD. and as i understand it, jews are GOD'S chosen people. 'nuff said'

I'm with you on this one. You don't want to mess with Israel. Remember the 6 Day War?

Originally posted by educatedfilm
I'm a little worried that the open forum is becomming a little too political... Anyone else?

Heh, it's more interesting than talking about everyone's favorite guitarist or why this band sucks and that other band rocks.

I think there are too many versions of the Bible to spend too much time debating exact points. The English Language Bibles you'll find today have been translated and retranslated from several languages, so there's going to be distortions. Also, the whole book is up for intrepretation, though the general gist of it is "be good to people."

Anyway, if you look at the history books or even the wolrd news, you usually find that any time people can separate themselves into "us" and "them" problems arise. We find all kinds of ways to do it too.

Originally posted by blackrose


Yes, he was Jewish. Thats a given fact. And if you read the bible (as I already advised), he DID come up with what was new ideas at the time. And his followers only believed what he already had told them...they didnt make it up. You need to update yer sources or something with those crackheaded ideas of yours...

hmm maybe i realy should read it, but i think for the beginning i'll ask you to tell my what are those new ideas

the only different thing between him and other people before him, as far as i know was that he said "im telling you" while the other guys, like moses and eliyahu (i dont know what his english name) said "god tells you to.."