Theory in Simple Terms

Ever feel like you've suffered from a Brain-Freeze just trying to understand a little theory after reading the first few lines some music Professor wrote? It's like reading R2D2. The fact is that the theory section of this forum has the least threads to offer some stepping stones that could cause the light bulb to flicker for someone. Understanding theory is manditory for any type of serious musician, no matter what you play. Many players learn chord structures, certain scales and techniques but never grasp how they relate to the music they're playing. A friend of mine has been playing guitar for years and plays great, but doesn't understand why a simple chord progression would use a C Major, Dm, Em and G Major in a verse. His solos are weak to say the least because of it unless he's doing a copy and figures most notes by ear.
You should have some basic knowledge in music before diving into theory, like knowing the intervals to construct a Major scale. That's where it all begins.
Starting with the Major scale helps to understand how notes relate to each other. Theory is better understood from the start. Music starts and ends with the C Major because it contains no accidentals (no sharp or flat notes) which are C-D-E-F-G-A-B, a total of seven notes. Each note is numbered,
C-1, D-2, E-3, F-4, G-5, A-6, B-7. Every Major scale will contain 3 major notes, 3 minor notes and 1 diminished note and are always in the same order from the root note. 1-major, 2-minor, 3-minor, 4-major, 5-major, 6-minor and 7-diminished. So the 2nd note of C Major is Dm. Why? For the answer you must go back to the Major scale. Since the note is D we use the D Major scale. Notice the third note in D-Major is F#. Flatten the third note 1/2 step makes it F, causing D to become minor and F fits in the C-Major Scale. Try the other notes and it will help to understand what chord progressions and scales fit well together. I call it the OJ theory "If it doesn't fit, you must aquite" because it allows you to bend the rules sometimes.
Next up> The circle of fifths.

i agreee

i also feel anoyed the theory section is often empty. i always try to answer others questions, and be helpfull. personaly at my present development i dont have to many questions to ask as i feel i understand a lot more stuff than i am able to utilise whilst playin. mainly du to the fact i skipped learnin the notes o the fret board.

i am interested in howw to put more augmented and diminished 7 chords into my work though. or just how to aply diatonic theory in general.

Originally Posted by: Fret spideri am interested in howw to put more augmented and diminished 7 chords into my work though. or just how to aply diatonic theory in general.

Start another thread man... lets talk about it... :D

Originally Posted by: dvenetian Each note is numbered,
C-1, D-2, E-3, F-4, G-5, A-6, B-7. Every Major scale will contain 3 major notes, 3 minor notes and 1 diminished note and are always in the same order from the root note. 1-major, 2-minor, 3-minor, 4-major, 5-major, 6-minor and 7-diminished.

Do you mean notes or chords? i'm confused (easily done) i've just started learning theory and i thought that the major scale was constructed from tones? whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half, and that the chords from the scale were major-minor-minor-major-major-minor-diminished? :confused:

if u take c majour it has the notes c d e f g a b

you can make chords out of any of these notes. but what is comonly done is called ading thirds

u take the first note, skip one take the second note skip one and takin the third note. then move one note up and do this again.

for example start on c

take c then skip d and get e and skipf and get g
so you have c e g these are the notes that make the c majour chord
start on d and do the same and you get d f a which is d minor
start on e and you get e g and b and you get e minor
start on f u get f a c which is f majour
start on g u get g b d which is g majour
start on a u get a c e which is a minor
start on b and you get b d f which is b minor b5 or b diminished


so you get the chords c majour, d minor, e minor, f majour, g majour, a minor, b diminished

Originally Posted by: strat-manDo you mean notes or chords? i'm confused (easily done) i've just started learning theory and i thought that the major scale was constructed from tones? whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half, and that the chords from the scale were major-minor-minor-major-major-minor-diminished? :confused:

You are correct with the above. A note is a note. It is neither Major or minor
What decides that is the Third interval for both scales and chords.
Example: Many players use "Power chords" which are the 1st (Root note) and the Fifth note, so technically a Power chord is neither Major or minor because the third note is absent from the chord structure.
Fret Spider gave a great example of thirds, check out his post.

Originally Posted by: Fret spiderif u take c majour it has the notes c d e f g a b

you can make chords out of any of these notes. but what is comonly done is called ading thirds

u take the first note, skip one take the second note skip one and takin the third note. then move one note up and do this again.

for example start on c

take c then skip d and get e and skipf and get g
so you have c e g these are the notes that make the c majour chord
start on d and do the same and you get d f a which is d minor
start on e and you get e g and b and you get e minor
start on f u get f a c which is f majour
start on g u get g b d which is g majour
start on a u get a c e which is a minor
start on b and you get b d f which is b minor b5 or b diminished


so you get the chords c majour, d minor, e minor, f majour, g majour, a minor, b diminished

That is very interesting. Never thought of that in my playing. I love this board i am really getting a lot of great ideas and instruction from some talented people. One of the tricks i like to use in riff playing is running through the sharps and flats in a scale. That is playing consecutive frets eg 7,8,9 etc. Adds some interest to a riff. As for augmented and diminished chords, easier on a piano but add extra flavour to a piece but somewhat difficult to fit in unless i am playing Jazz. I am deffinitely going to look at that more seriously.

thanks guys.

Originally Posted by: strat-manDo you mean notes or chords? i'm confused (easily done) i've just started learning theory and i thought that the major scale was constructed from tones? whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half, and that the chords from the scale were major-minor-minor-major-major-minor-diminished? :confused:

I like to learn things in segments, a chunk at a time if you will, rather than trying to consume the whole thing at once and choking on it. Theory is so complexed, I believe confusion is it's middle name. A piece at a time you might say. Now to the next level regarding your question(s) (there is a book that can be written from those two or three powerful little sentences you wrote). Even though I covered the note is a note, when you combine those notes with the intervals you listed above, the answer is yes I mean notes in the Major scale. The Diatonic makeup changes the value of each note by the order it is placed in the Major scale. The Root note is King (Super Tone, The Big Ionian Major Dog you might say) the other notes are given rank by Mr. Root by their tonal value to Root. Some are dominant, some pre-dom and some are just passive, Major chord doesn't even need em other than holidays.
Hell, one of the them had to be diminished down to nothing just to fit in, but has a few secrets on being heard.
To be clear, The Major, minor and diminished notes of the Major scale carry a title for their position in relation to the Root. Remember that all chords are constructed from scales and they are not the sole reason for each notes title. Every note in the scale has it's own opportunity in the spotlight after being assigned to a Mode of the Diatonic Scale. How that Mode compliments King Ionian and the neighbors, dictates it's title.
Hope that was more to the point. Back to the circle of Fifths.

Ah, think i'm gettin it now, thanx for the help :)

I know what you mean when talking about the confusion created when too many complex terms are used to describe movements on the fretboard that are actually fairly simple progressions in practice. When trying to teach someone who wants to learn the reasoning behind the sounds it is best to put the principals behind the methods in the simplest possible terms, and reasonings, (without blowing the mind of the student). I mean there are alot of terminologys that just cant be left out for proper learning, but my goodness were not all PHDs in axeinology.
My light bulb went on when I learned the DIATONIC SCALE all throughout the neck," Top to Bottom, and understood that the scale is the same for all 12 keys, as a matter of a fact it is the key,(and the first thing you need to know is how to play in key). That is when your leads, and chord progressions will actually start sounding normal, and correct. If you are hitting a note that is not in this scale then you are actually playing out of key {ouch, that can hurt the ears} !!! unless your more advanced, and know whats up.
Its not really that hard, you start at the top of the neck, and learn your way down, of course after having a copy of the Diatonic scale layed out on a printed diagram of the fretboard in front of you for reference,(in the key of your choice), C Major if you like= C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C
/ ws-ws-hs-ws-ws-ws-hs /
Or A minor= A - B - C - D - E - F - G - A
/ ws-hs-ws-ws-hs-ws-ws /
It is my understanding that the Major scale has the intervals of a
whole step-whole step-half step-whole step-whole step-whole step-half
And the Minor scale has the intervals of-
whole step-half step-whole step-whole step-half step-whole step-whole step
It seems that there may be some confusion between minor scale, and flats, and sharps in the major scale from the statements I read above, but thats just me, I am not going to try and make this any more confusing than I possibly have too. But I do know that Major is the interval of ws-ws-hs,
and minor is the interval of ws-hs, and so on.
Just learning the diatonic scale can be the easiest way to start making sense of music theroy, and that is the cold hard truth in its simplest form !

This is why I like to take the next chunk of learning with the circle of fifths. It allows the light bulb to get a little brighter when you see how many notes in the diatonic scale are shared by the diatonic scale from the fifth note.
Example: the fifth of C is G. C Major and G Major share all the same notes but one (the seventh interval of G Major is F#). Since the C Major Chord is constructed from the 1st, 3rd and fifth notes of the C Major scale (C-E-G)
and G Major Chord is 1st, 3rd and fifth notes of the G Major scale (G-B-D). Notice how the G Major Chords 1st, 3rd and fifth notes are the fifth notes of the C Major chords 1st, 3rd and fifth notes. ( fifth of C is G, fifth of E is B and fifth of G is D). As you progress it will take more flattened or sharpened intervals to connect with C before reaching the furthest distance and returning back to close the gap.
Example: G Major has 1# note different from C Major (G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G) And F Major Has 1b note different from C Major (F-G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F)
To flatten the 7th interval 1/2 step from the G major scale would change the F# to F. Adding that F note to the G Major Chord would create a G7 chord.
Playing that F note with the G Major Scale instead of the F# note would change the G Major scale (1-2-3-4-5-6-7)
to a G Mixolydian (1-2-3-4-5-6-b7) which also is the 5th mode of the C Major scale.

Originally Posted by: dvenetianThis is why I like to take the next chunk of learning with the circle of fifths. It allows the light bulb to get a little brighter when you see how many notes in the diatonic scale are shared by the diatonic scale from the fifth note.
Example: the fifth of C is G. C Major and G Major share all the same notes but one (the seventh interval of G Major is F#). Since the C Major Chord is constructed from the 1st, 3rd and fifth notes of the C Major scale (C-E-G)
and G Major Chord is 1st, 3rd and fifth notes of the G Major scale (G-B-D). Notice how the G Major Chords 1st, 3rd and fifth notes are the fifth notes of the C Major chords 1st, 3rd and fifth notes. ( fifth of C is G, fifth of E is B and fifth of G is D). As you progress it will take more flattened or sharpened intervals to connect with C before reaching the furthest distance and returning back to close the gap.
Example: G Major has 1# note different from C Major (G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G) And F Major Has 1b note different from C Major (F-G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F)
To flatten the 7th interval 1/2 step from the G major scale would change the F# to F. Adding that F note to the G Major Chord would create a G7 chord.
Playing that F note with the G Major Scale instead of the F# note would change the G Major scale (1-2-3-4-5-6-7)
to a G Mixolydian (1-2-3-4-5-6-b7) which also is the 5th mode of the C Major scale.

Check your pm.

Originally Posted by: axemaster911
It is my understanding that the Major scale has the intervals of a
whole step-whole step-half step-whole step-whole step-whole step-half
And the Minor scale has the intervals of-
whole step-half step-whole step-whole step-half step-whole step-whole step
It seems that there may be some confusion between minor scale, and flats, and sharps in the major scale from the statements I read above, but thats just me, I am not going to try and make this any more confusing than I possibly have too. But I do know that Major is the interval of ws-ws-hs,
and minor is the interval of ws-hs, and so on.
Just learning the diatonic scale can be the easiest way to start making sense of music theroy, and that is the cold hard truth in its simplest form !

There are some interesting statements in the above quote that may help eliminate some confusion when studying theory in simple terms.
First off, Knowing the intervals that make up a scale should be understood as a formula or a pattern ( the same pattern works for all notes that you start the interval formula on, ie. Major formula= Major Scale of the Starting note, minor formula= minor scale, Harmonic minor formula = etc.....).
Theory teaches you how to understand the connection between certain notes (Major, minor, 7th's, etc...) and how they complement each other or don't.
Second, a scale (Major, minor, etc......) will never have both sharp and flat notes mixed in the same scale. It will be one or the other.
Although it is mainly used in Staff (reading music) the # or b note will be used to eliminate confusion.
Example: G, G# would not be written to avoid having 2 G's. It would be G,Ab.
Make sense?

Originally Posted by: dvenetianThere are some interesting statements in the above quote that may help eliminate some confusion when studying theory in simple terms.
First off, Knowing the intervals that make up a scale should be understood as a formula or a pattern ( the same pattern works for all notes that you start the interval formula on, ie. Major formula= Major Scale of the Starting note, minor formula= minor scale, Harmonic minor formula = etc.....).
Theory teaches you how to understand the connection between certain notes (Major, minor, 7th's, etc...) and how they complement each other or don't.
Second, a scale (Major, minor, etc......) will never have both sharp and flat notes mixed in the same scale. It will be one or the other.
Although it is mainly used in Staff (reading music) the # or b note will be used to eliminate confusion.
Example: G, G# would not be written to avoid having 2 G's. It would be G,Ab.
Make sense?

I try not to worry so much about what notes are being played, and concentrate more on staying within the diatonic pattern. I try to let my ear tell me what sounds good, and then when I have found the sound I like then write down the note structures in there lettered form for future reference. And when you get the key down pat even try incorporating chromatic notes out of the key for places where you might want to spice things up a bit.
Second it is my understanding that for example G#/Ab (which is after all is the same pitch) is G# if you are descending from G, or above, and Ab if you are ascending from A, or below. Therefore a scale can have sharps, and flats writen in the same piece of music depending on your direction of travel within the song.
If I am wrong on that set me straight, but I think learning the diatonic pattern in the key of your liking, and then playing around with note structures to find new crazy cool sounds is when the fun really begins!! :cool:

When putting a key signature in written form, the order of flats and sharps are dictated from the circle of fifths.
The order of flats are B-E-A-D-G-C-F. Going in the opposite direction the order of sharps are F-C-G-D-A-E-B.
To Clear up the # vs. b theory I'll try to give a better and more detailed example. This is referred to as the Diatonic function.
Example: a C# can't substitute for a Db, even though they are identical pitches, because a Db can serve as the third of a Bb minor scale/chord while a C# cannot and the C# can serve as the fifth degree of the F#Major scale while the Db cannot.
Here is the Bb Major scale: Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G-A
Here is the Bb minor scale: Bb-C-Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab
Here is the F# Major scale: F#-G#-A#-B-C#-D#-E#
Here is the Gb Major scale: Gb-Ab-Bb-Cb-Db-Eb-F

The accidentals for each scale will either be all # or all b, not mixed.
look at the F# Major scale. Something seems strange... E#?????
F# Major is determined in Staff and marked with 6#'s. E# makes the 6th # and follows D#.
If F were used there would only be 5#'s and B Major has 5#'s so you wouldn't be able to determine between the two.

Wooh man, you may be right, but I try not to think that deep. It serves me best to keep it as simple as possible. :confused:

Kinda thought that was simple when trying to understand the relative order in Theory.

Originally Posted by: dvenetianKinda thought that was simple when trying to understand the relative order in Theory.

You made a good point, and I am curious to know how many players see this as an easy to understand subject, and how many dont quite grasp the circle of fifths throughout many different keys, and with respect to sharps vs flats?
This could clear things up for many players stumped on the subject.

Originally Posted by: axemaster911You made a good point, and I am curious to know how many players see this as an easy to understand subject, and how many dont quite grasp the circle of fifths throughout many different keys, and with respect to sharps vs flats?
This could clear things up for many players stumped on the subject.

I don't think I'd say that it's easy to understand, but once you get started with theory it all starts to fall in to place. I personally have never used the actual 'circle of fifths' in visual form, I've memorised the order of sharps/flats so I can tell you the key signature of a given key - not very useful day to day though...

As dvenetian says, some keys are sharp, and some are flat - so to be 'correct' when spelling a scale you'd need to use the option that fits with the key. Most of the time, if you don't know if it's a sharp or flat key, the easiest thing to do is never to use the same letter twice in a row (except in a blues scale where it can't be avoided) - so it would be A B C# D, not A B Db D...

I guess you can sum it all up with 'It's easy when you know how'...

Originally Posted by: ren... I personally have never used the actual 'circle of fifths' in visual form ...

In my experience the single biggest reason guitarists have a hard time with the circle of 5ths is because it is hard to visualize on their instrument. Literally, it is hard to SEE.

This is because the guitar makes no physical, visual distinction between a natural letter note and a sharp or flat. It's just another fret - one up or down.

Compare this to the piano and immediately the difference becomes obvious. If you are playing in G major on a piano the only black key you see and, or play is the F-sharp. Because the piano has it's very distinctive pattern of white keys for naturals and black keys for sharps/flats it is easier to see and recognize accidentals and key signatures.

Another problem is that many guitarist simply refuse to learn how to read music. The more a player reads on a regular basis, the easier it becomes to understand, see, and use key signatures, and thus the circle of 5ths.