Song Structures

Hey all,
Personally, standard song structures are not for me. When I write, It tends to lean more progressive and free..but still maintaining a sense of overall oneness.

Feel free to share your methods of writing. :)

I find it very difficult and uninspiring to try and "plan" out a song. It works much better for me when I let the song "come out" on it's own.
Usually I'll have either a melody, a riff, or a chord progression idea that I like and I'll just improvise around until I come up with something else I like.

Any of you interested in the creative process might want to check out "On Writing" by Stephen King..great book.

I usually take different approaches..Sometimes I just go with whatever I am feeling, and sometimes I write what I plan to do beforehand. I think it's good to know what sections will have what emotions beforehand so that you can have a clear direction to take.

Originally Posted by: Tyler GoyakHey all,
Personally, standard song structures are not for me. When I write, It tends to lean more progressive and free..but still maintaining a sense of overall oneness.

I'm exactly the opposite. I need structure. Free verse poetry just drives me crazy. My songs need to be firmly structured, have a consistent rhythm, and they need to rhyme. It's the only way for me.

songs shud sounds better rhymed..thats what makes it different from poetry i guess..in poetry there arent restrictions..rhyme-wise that is...ive been doing more poetry than songs lately..for some reason i cant get my head around writing lyrics...i am also very cynical towards my lyrics...ill end up not being happy with it all the time...which is a normal thing i guess but it hinders my songwriting a great deal...let alone make new music...

Originally Posted by: earthman buckI'm exactly the opposite. I need structure. Free verse poetry just drives me crazy. My songs need to be firmly structured, have a consistent rhythm, and they need to rhyme. It's the only way for me.

Yeah, me too. I've tried doing alternate, free structures but the songs always sound wrong. I usually end up editing them down.
It kinda depends on the type of song though... if you're doing top 40 or radio edits, you have to stick to a certain structure or it'll never get airplay.
If you're doing dance tunes, jazz or whatever, you've got more freedom to experiment.

Well, as for me, I've just stepped into the wonderful world of writing... Recently though, planning and inspiration seem to work equally well for me...

We I'm writing a song I usually start with something a riff, prog., or melody I really like or sounds cool. After that in order to turn it into a song I usually fool around with it until some sort of structure is found. This usually ends up being a very common structure like v c v c m8 v c c end. Even out sidie of this with an open sort of stream of consiousness piece I still tend to return "home" from time to time. This feels natural to me and I think helps listner to not get lost in shift after shift without resolution of some sort.

Hope that makes so kind of sense. great thread.

S

I feel I'm a pretty good songwriter in both a musical sense and a lyrical sense. Although I love being creative and just letting the song out itself, usually I don't get very far because I'll back myself into a corner where I don't know what to do next. I find what I usually do is try the creative thing first and then later actually work or plan what I want to happen. I find this is pretty good for me because then I have an entire shelf of inspired ideas to pick and choose from.

I agree, good thread!

I personally hate rhyming my lyrics, its not that I have trouble doing it I just feel that it seems contrived and fake, I do rhyme when I feel it makes sense to or just naturally fits, but I try to come up with interesting things to say and use words that express the image better rather than saying, this phrase has to end with this rhyme and force my lyrics into a mold.

as for music it depends on what Im writing for, if its a heavier song than I usually can hear what I want in my head before I try to figure out how to play it. For other stuff I usually just come up with a simple progression and then expand upon that.

Does anybody else have the problem of having tons of very clear ideas for riffs and melodies in your head and then you go sit down with your guitar ten minutes later and you can't remember any of it, and not only that you can't think of anything at all. This happens to me sometimes and its annoying as hell, I've taken to carrying a recorder around with me in case I suddenly get an idea because I know I wont remember it the second I sit down.

I find it really frustrating that you can come up with an idea for a song in your head, but it takes weeks to actually record it.
Wish there was a way to plug your brain straight into the computer so you didn't have to spend hours fiddling around with MIDI notes, editing songs, programming synths, adding effects etc..
I just spent the last three days converting .wav loops into .rex loops & can barely remember the song I started working on.

Yeah I know what you guys mean, I try to work it out right when I think of it. Usually I'll have what I wanted all worked out and then I'll edit it to see what it'll sound like and it'll sound terriable and I can remember what I did before. Esh!

It really depends on the composition. I use many different techniques for composing and some of them are strictly "improvisational" in nature, like Nick Layton prefers, while others are very structured and involve a dynamic process of Pre-Composition.

I think it evolves over time as well.
When you first start writing a song, you tend to improvise a lot and come up with ideas. As you keep going you start to narrow down the best parts and eliminate the bad ones.
Then when you start recording, it takes a whole new direction again because the other instruments dictate what the song will sound like.
When you get a rough draft recording down, you start to realize that the free form stuff might now be working, so you start editing it down to a more structured approach.
Then you move on to doing final takes and things take a new direction again because you start adding lyrics and changing melodies.
Then you realize your song is still over 5 minutes in length so you have to shave off that cool solo in the middle, or cut out 4 bars of the intro, or fade it out earlier...
By the time you've spent a month on it, what started out as an original sounding freeform idea has totally changed into a standard pop song.