acoustic guitar

I posted this yesterday, but it seems the thread disappeared.

I used to have a nylon stringed guitar (cheap kind, but I'm an amateur so it was fine). Pitch-wise, it was low enough to sing along to and if I wanted it higher, I used a capo. I was also able to play/strum chords without a problem.

However, I recently got an acoutic guitar, which the shop tuned for me (don't know how to do it from scratch myself yet). Two things are problematic for me-- the pitch is too high that I have to sing falsetto just to manage. Is there such a thing as tuning it to lower octave/pitch (? if this the right term). But that would mean loosening up the strings a bit, if it's a case of too tightly wound strings, is that alright?

Also, the strings hurt my fingers unbelievably. I have to press REALLY hard to not make the strings vibrate and play correctly, esp the 5th and 6th strings. Too hard that it makes playing almost impossible. Is this because it's steel strings and I sould just get used to it, or a case of the strings wound too tight?

Thanks for any advice. I'm not sure if I should've gotten a classical instead, but the acoustic really has a sound too vibrant too pass up on...

it all takes getting used to the strings...yes u can tune it lower...keep practising and ull build calluses...soon youd be skating thru the strings like ice

yeah I replied to this but the thread got deleted for some reason.

Steel strings are harder to play than nylon strings. They are under more tension which makes them harder to press down and they will hurt your fingers more at first.
Regardless of what sort of strings your guitar has, the strings should be at the same pitch. I reccommend getting an electronic guitar tuner so you can tune your guitar to concert pitch (meaning you can play along to cds etc)

Thank for the reply, guys. Gives me some assurance that I bought the correct guitar.

Julian, I found this online-- is this tuner ok to use for an acoutic guitar? http://www.hotfrets.com/tuner.asp

Also, are tuners for acoustic same as for classical guitars?

Thanks a lot!

Originally Posted by: van2006Thank for the reply, guys. Gives me some assurance that I bought the correct guitar.

Julian, I found this online-- is this tuner ok to use for an acoutic guitar? http://www.hotfrets.com/tuner.asp

Also, are tuners for acoustic same as for classical guitars?

Thanks a lot!

I reccommend going to an instrument store and buying a tuner. An electronic tuner should have an input for plugging an electric guitar into as well as a microphone for using with an acoustic gutiar (classical or steel string it doesn't matter).

Or, if you have a good ear you can tune your guitar to the correct pitch by using a piano or an electric keyboard (keyboards are better because they don't ever go out of tune themselves). Just play an E note on the keyboard and tune your E string to that note, repeat for the other strings.

thanks for the advice!

I'd get a Seiko tuner - i wouldn't ever geta kwictune again, binned it !!!!!

Well, as for your fingers hurting, you can adjust the [U]Action[/U] (The height of the strings off of the neck of the guitar), lowering the strings, so you wont have to press as hard. Be careful when doing so; Adjusting it to much can make your strings buzz annoyingly. If your not to sure on how to do this, ask a more experienced player, or a Luthier, or a guitar repairsman. If you dont know how to do this, DONT ATTEMPT IT!!! You can adjust to far, and it may break the trus rod, which is a long metal bar in the neck of the guitar that controls it's angle.

A freind of mine had the same problem, and the pain almost turned him away from playing; then I had an idea. Tune every string down a semitone (a half step) and put a capo on the first fret. I had never tried it before, but he said it worked for him, and he played like that until he had hard enough calluses to play normally. I've never tried it myself, though maybe you should experiment with the idea.

Hope that helped.

Thanks for the advice, guys! Some more questions though-- which may sound silly, but I admit I know almost nothing technical about guitars, so bear with me please:

1. I was able to tune the guitar using the link I posted earlier (haven't bought an electornic tuner yet, but will do asap-- seiko, thanks grambo, hope it's not expensive)-- it's in tune but high-pitched. I'd like to confirm if I understand this correctly: For example, the 6th string must be tuned to E, right? For that string- won't there be only 2 pitch options to tune it as E which is the a high E (tight winding) and low E (a bit looser)? Because anything between that will be a different note already, right? I'm assuming I'm using the higer E because my 1st string's already creaking with tension when I was tuning it relative to the 6th string tuning. The thing is, if I tune the 6th string to the low E, the string's too loose and vibrates....

2. I thought I could tell if a guitar was acoutic or classical by the sound-- but it seems a classical can sound just as vibrant. For example, is this singer using an acoustic or classical? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6XR7VzibSY) because it's too bass-y to be acoustic, but too vibrant to be classical. And my 1st-3rd strings sound nowehre like that regardless of high or low tuning. Can one tell by its appearance, like neck width?

3. pizzicatopicker, my fingers are still in great pain despite the calluses-- even the side of my thumb has a callus for having to push the neck against my already pressed-down fingers. It's eating up my nails! LOL. I'd like to try what you suggested but I don't know anyone like you mentioned-- will try to see if the electronic tuner I will soon get can result to a lower tuning. Sigh, it seems I still play my old cheap classical because my fingers actually find it playable :(

Thanks for any help!

The world of tone is a vast one... There are a ton more differences between acoustic guitars besides just whether it's a classical or otherwise. Classical guitars are just another different body style of acoustic guitars... The guy on the right in that video is playing what's called a dreadnought style acoustic... A dreadnought is characterised by the shape of the body... It's bigger than a standard classical guitar but has the same "no cut away body style" as a classical... Dreadnoughts also are steel string acoustics where as most classicals use nylon strings... This is what gives a classical it's "classical" tone.... The guy on the left in the video that you linked to is playing what is most commonly known as a Grand Auditorium style guitar... Which is bigger still than a dreadnought and they often have a single cut away for easier access to the higher frets... These are also steel string guitars... There are other different body shapes that may dictate the tone of the guiar as well... such as Jumbo acoustics... which are larger body guitar with a lot of resonance... there are steel string dobros or resonators as they are often called which have a steel cone where the tone hole generally is... This cone gives them a distinctivly steel twangy sound... normally these guitars are played with open tunings and played with a slide... Now that we've looked at the difference in body shapes... which dictates the tone of a guitar... We can look at other aspects of an acoustic guitar that will dictate the specific tone of that guitar.... The woods of the guitar are very important to which tone the guitar will give off... the most common wood for the top (or soundboard) of the guitar is spruce... about 70% of acoustic guitars have a spruce top... because it is a middle of the road tone wood that can convey deep tones as well as bright tones...... This wood is more for projection purposes rather than pure tone... The top of the guitar is called the "soundboard" because it's mechanical purpose is to project the sound... rather than defining the way the guitar sounds... That is more the job of the back and side woods.... the backs and sides of acoustics can be made of all kinds of woods depending on what tone you want... common ones are maple, mahogany, and koa... Koa is an exotic tone wood that is very similar to mahogany but has a different, more aesthetic grain structure.... generally used in the place of mahogany on higher end guitars to give it an exotic look... So along with the tone woods of the backs and sides comes the structuring of the guitar.... Different companies have used different methods of building guitars for as long as guitars have been around... They follow the same basic concepts... but companies tend to do things differently based on what tone they're going for.... I'm not going to get much into it because the bracings and perfling of acoustics is generallly not something a guitar player needs to know... but the pattern of the bracing... whether it's a cross pattern... or x brace pattern... with the braces are scalloped or flat ended... the width/thickness of the bracing.... the specific location of the bracing... the width/thickness of the perfling... the space between the hatching on the perfling... all are things that can effect the way the guitar vibrates thus effecting the tone.... along with bracing and perfling comes the structure of the neck mount.... There are a few different ways that are commonly used to mount necks... some have been around for ages... developed by classical guitar luthiers long ago... but a few are more modern.. such as the method developed by Bob Taylor... He uses a dove tail hitch pattern with two mounting screws... rather than the adhesive hatch mounting that is commonly used by other companies... This makes neck transplants much easier...... Then there are the neck woods... mahogany is generally the most popular acoustic neck wood... There are others but mahogany or similar woods are normally used... A dense wood is a common neck wood. So the moral of the story as that there are numerous reasons why your guitar doesn't sound exactly like some other guitar... I didn't even mention the fact that the strings themselves can depict the brightness or warmth of your guitar.... Those things need to be understood so that you can understand tone as a whole.... Understanding what you like in tone is half the battle... the next thing is finding that tone...

Originally Posted by: van2006
3. pizzicatopicker, my fingers are still in great pain despite the calluses-- even the side of my thumb has a callus for having to push the neck against my already pressed-down fingers. It's eating up my nails! LOL. I'd like to try what you suggested but I don't know anyone like you mentioned-- will try to see if the electronic tuner I will soon get can result to a lower tuning. Sigh, it seems I still play my old cheap classical because my fingers actually find it playable :(

Thanks for any help!

Yes, well, it is hindering... The more you play, the more your fingers will hurt, but the sooner you'll be able to play [U]with out[/U] pain. I'd suggest that you play your classical and steel-string on intervals... Though make sure that your fingers are fatigued to some point before you play your nylon-string. The fatigue means you are working those muscles, which means you are developing them! It could take up to a few months; Yes, I know, a few months! Though if your still having a harrowing experience playing the guitar (which, in any case, it should'nt be) Then ask other players, or, I know, your GT family!

Happy Holidays!

-Matt L.

Originally Posted by: aschleman There are other different body shapes that may dictate the tone of the guiar as well...

Yes, cut aways may make the "nose bleed registers" more accessible, though they sacrifice a certain amount of volume and tone. More advanced players who dont usually play with cut away guitars, say Don Ross for instance, arent really bothered by the absnece of the cut away. I havent seen many solid bodies w/ out cut aways; This is becuase guitarists usually degrade the guitar's original timbre with copius amounts of distortion and effects. You can also tell the quality of an electric axe by listening to it's tone when it is not plugged in.

Hi, aschleman. Thanks for the very informative post. Learned a lot there. A few questions:
1.Is the dreadnought a common or high-end/professional kind of guitar?
2.You mentioned the strings-- since I basically can't do anything with the guitar itself-- do you mean there are certain kinds of replacement steel strings for a Squier that I can choose from or is it an option only for certain guitars? I hope it's a yes because I'm not so crazy with the overly metallic sound of the 1-3rd strings

Also, thanks for the advice, Matt-- appreciate it.

Originally Posted by: van2006Hi, aschleman. Thanks for the very informative post. Learned a lot there. A few questions:
1.Is the dreadnought a common or high-end/professional kind of guitar?
2.You mentioned the strings-- since I basically can't do anything with the guitar itself-- do you mean there are certain kinds of replacement steel strings for a Squier that I can choose from or is it an option only for certain guitars? I hope it's a yes because I'm not so crazy with the overly metallic sound of the 1-3rd strings

Also, thanks for the advice, Matt-- appreciate it.

Not a problem... that's what we're here for.

1. The dreadnought style guitar is just one of the styles, like I said... Some people prefer the full sound of the dreadnought when playing, and yes... professional musicians do use them... but all in all, as with any gear, it's usually up to the artists preference. Normally dreadnought style guitars are preferred by artists that have a style that is more based around chords and strumming rather than riffing or scale type playing... But sure, a ton of companies make dreadnoughts that are designed for professional use... Just depends on the manufacturer and the quality whether or not it's a high end model or not... Doesn't really have anythign to do with whether it's a dreadnought or not. But there are high end dreadnought models out there... certainly

2. You can put any steel acoustic strings on any steel acoustic. There are literally infinite combinations of string gauges to choose from but for a beginner i suggest you buy a set of 6 strings... You can buy strings individually but string manufacturers have done a great job of putting together the basic sets of strings... A metallic sound translates, to me, as a treble sound... So if you don't like the treble sound that you're getting from those 3 strings I suggest you go with a heavier set of strings... Some of the good manufacturers to check out are GHS, D'Adarrio, Elixer, and Martin strings... you might especially like the Martin strings since they tend to bleed off some of the treble tones of guitars..... But I suggest taking your guitar into a shop or a guitar center and talkign to someone so they can give you some hands on attention since it's hard for me to give that over a forum.

Good Luck.

Thanks, aschleman. Was looking up Martin strings over the web, seems like there is more than one option... thanks for the help, really. :)

Hi, guys. I'm back with some questions. I'm just putting it here since they're quite a lot and of varied topics.

I've been practicing enough that, though I don't always get the strumming patterns of some complicated songs right, chords-wise I guess I'm decent enough since I can sing along to the guitar. My questions are:

1. I would like to be able to record my voice/guitar while doing songs. Not because I'm good. In fact, it's because I don't know where I am in the scale of decent and bad that I'd like to listen to myself (lol) via a third source, hence recording it. I have an acoustic guitar, not an electric acoustic, so, what's a good set-up just to record decently, not professional level of course! Two mics, or just one since I'm in a quiet room anyway? What kind of mics, will the normall computer mics do? I know you have to "block" your mic with something (socks?) so the voice would be more diffused... anything else? and computer wise, how do you set it up, and what freeware can I use? I am starting from scratch, any help would be great:) Not a professional set-up please, but not too crappy that I'll barely hear myself, something like those people on youtube probably.

2. Don't laugh, but I'm just curious-- does everyone sound good singing in the bathroom because of the acoustics of that place? I have to say, I sound better there than in my room, lol.

3. Guitar Pick-- I can't seem to learn how to properly use it without hearing the plastic "thk" sound hitting the strings. I've already used the thinnest pick I can find, and it still sounds. Is it the way I'm holding it? Or it really makes a sound and is just overpowered by the volume of the strumming? Admittedly I don't strum that hard.... So this whole time, I'm just going without it. Is it considered "unimproved" if I don't learn how to use a pick?

Thanks for any advice!

Yes,just keep plugging away at your acoustic.Its normal for your fingers to get sore,and to slur your notes whether your playing chords or scales.Open C chord still gets me at times.Thats why I practice so much lately.If its any comfort,when you go to electric guitar it will be so much easier for you.I just try to remember all the shapes to chords,and basic patterns to scales.I learn all the new stuff on my acoustic,then go to my Les Paul.Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by: van2006 2. Don't laugh, but I'm just curious-- does everyone sound good singing in the bathroom because of the acoustics of that place? I have to say, I sound better there than in my room, lol.

As a matter of fact: YES, I work as a recordist in a hi-end studio, and I know what it is like to feed talents back their own voice reberebed via headphones, they get really more stable voice than when they are singing w/o feedback, Bathrooms walls reflect your voice and add the reverb to it - by multi reflecting the same sound waves, and the magic happens, you can hear your voice and you automatically tune to it sustaining your notes, and it is a joy to sing with reverb.... and under water :)

Hi, joeal-- yea, I've been practicing and earning those calluses. Not painful anymore, actually :) I've been trying to learn how to bend via tutorials on youtube and couldn't but er, obviously, too advanced for me. I can't wait to get an electric, even just a cheap one-- I can imagine how fun it is to play that.

Sam_J, interesting! I thought it was more of the bathroom acoustics giving the illusion that the voice sounds nicer because it's bouncing and blending the sound (meaning a tone deaf person would sound better as well). It turns out it just acts like a monitor then? The gift is within us :D lol. Well, since you're an expert, a follow up q. What is it about the bathroom? The material of the walls? Vs any other room like the bedroom, why does it sound better there, given same quietness and size?

Well, it is the bathroom acoustics, but a tone-deaf person won't sound better, he will just sound like a bad singer with reverb added :)

Sound waves are just like light wave, they have a lot of the same behaviors, they reflect, deflect and diffract, and the bathroom has some features a living room doesn't have: bathrooms are usually empty, it helps sound to reflect and bounce from wall to wall without randomly-shaped obstacles that diffract it - in case it was solid - or absorb it - if it was soft like clothes, sofas, curtains .. etc, also, bathrooms are small, so sound waves can travel among walls for more times before they fade away (actually they transform into heat because of friction).

Other important feature a bathroom has is its shape, which is usually rectangular or square shape, and by having parallel walls sound waves get reinforced when they bounced among two parallel walls (even they mute sound suddenly when a wave's peak meets its bounced valley), and that is why all professional recording studios or recording booths have tilted walls, not parallel.

Finally, It depends also on the song, if it is a cool song, you will be more happy :D