modes and such

Originally Posted by: Fret spiderit is as cryptic says

anyway to just give u examples lets take the key of c ionian (the major scale). it has the following notes C D E F G A B. and then repeats

i will quickly clear up the 1 4 5 thing. the first chord of the scale is pretty obvious, you take the first 3rd 5th and seventh note. which are C E G B.

now for the second chord set the second note D as the root note, so that the order of the notes is D E F G A B C. (now you are in the dorian mode but modes are not specifcally important now, i am just tryin to show you how to make the chords). now again take the first 3rd 5th and seventh note of this scale. this time it will be D F A and C.

then u do the above again starting on the third note of the ionian scale. which is now the phrygian mode. the notes are E F G A B C D. and the chord you get contains E G B and D.

repeat this for the remaining notes of the scale and you get all the seventh chords for the c ionian scale. if u want only triads eg major/minor chords with out the seventh exclude the seventh note.

to sum up the first chord contains C E G B and is a Cmaj7th (could play cmaj)
the second chord contains D F A and C and is a Dmin7th (could play Dmin)
the third chord contains E G B and D and is a Emin7th (could play Emin)
the fourth chord contains F A C E and is a Fmaj 7th (could play Fmaj)
the fith chord contains G B D F and is a dominat 7th, also kown as 7th chord, (it is made of root, maj 3rd, 5th, flat 7th) and is G7. (could play Gmaj)
the sixth chord contains A C E G and is a Amin 7th ( could play Amin)
the seventh chord contains B D F and A and is a diminished 7th (i think that is the name), (it has a root, min3rd, flat 5th, flat 7th) and is Bdiminshed 7. (could play Bdiminished.)


so now we have the seven chords of the scale.

now back to modes, one could think of the modes as changing from chord to chord, so that on the first chord it is the C ionian, on the fourth it is F lydian (the fourth mode), and on the fith it is G mixolydian (the fith mode). this is quite usefull as it allows the muscision to target the particular notes that are in the chord whilst playing lead, this is often very useful. but because the 1 4 5 progression (Cmaj 7th, Fmaj 7th, G dominant 7th or Cmaj, Fmaj, Gmaj) has a very distinctive sound that resolves very well back to the first chord, Cmaj 7th, it sounds like the modality remains in C ionian.

now if i was to play the chords Dmin 7th, G dominant 7th. Amin 7th it is possible to say this is a 2 5 6 progression in C ionian. but i 2 5 6 has a weak feel it doesnt feel very 'obvious' to the listener. they would prefer to hear it as a 1 4 5 progression in D dorian.

really it all depends in a way on the start point.if u say the second chord of the C ionian scale is going to be your 1 chord you are in the dorian mode, if you say the third note of the C ionian is the 1 chord you are in the phrygian mode.


to hear all this play 1 4 5 progressions in each mode.

eg relative to the ionian mode 1 4 5
2 5 6
3 6 7
4 7 8/1
5 8/1 2
6 2 3
7 3 4

hope this helps

When all else fails, go cromatic on em?
A-A#-B-C-C#-D-D#-E-F-F#-G-G#>
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12>

Im just playin Fret Spider. This is a very good lesson, you know your s**t. That question was completely answered. NEXT?

Originally Posted by: axemaster911When all else fails, go cromatic on em?
A-A#-B-C-C#-D-D#-E-F-F#-G-G#>
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12>

Im just playin Fret Spider. This is a very good lesson, you know your s**t. That question was completely answered. NEXT?

Next is a lesson in chromatics

Teehee, you shure pwned that n00b and his spellign errers Jollry

Originally Posted by: Julian VickersTeehee, you shure pwned that n00b and his spellign errers Jollry

Not in music theory, please.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonNext is a lesson in chromatics

I am ready for my lesson. Let me guess, I forgot to mention B-flat,D-flat,
E-flat,G-flat,A-flat. No you wouldent go there, you are poking fun at my spelling error, and the lessons I need are in English Well I will wait patiently for my lesson. Should I miss spell in future, let he who hath never miss spelled cast the first stone. I will take all the free lessons I can get, the realm of the music theroy jungle I try so hard to master, to no avail. But is the lesson you sudjest musical, or spellical. If spelling is the irritation I have irritated apon you no this ,as I have miss spelled chromatic, yes I admit, but with research NEXT soon you will see, there is no such word as CHROMATICS. Now who needs the lesson Jolly.

Originally Posted by: axemaster911there is no such word as CHROMATICS.

I beg to differ.

Originally Posted by: Julian VickersTeehee, you shure pwned that n00b and his spellign errers Jollry

I got your n00b julie. I can play better than you any way, so spell this,
F** O**.

Originally Posted by: axemaster911I am ready for my lesson. Let me guess, I forgot to mention B-flat,D-flat,
E-flat,G-flat,A-flat. No you wouldent go there, you are poking fun at my spelling error, and the lessons I need are in English Well I will wait patiently for my lesson. Should I miss spell in future, let he who hath never miss spelled cast the first stone. I will take all the free lessons I can get, the realm of the music theroy jungle I try so hard to master, to no avail. But is the lesson you sudjest musical, or spellical. If spelling is the irritation I have irritated apon you no this ,as I have miss spelled chromatic, yes I admit, but with research NEXT soon you will see, there is no such word as CHROMATICS. Now who needs the lesson Jolly.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=chromatic

chro·mat·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kr-mtk)
adj.

Relating to colors or color.
Relating to color perceived to have a saturation greater than zero.
Music.
Of, relating to, or based on the chromatic scale.
Relating to chords or harmonies based on nonharmonic tones.

I'm guessing part of the reason why Jolly said that is because he doesn't like incorrect information regarding music theory to be spread around. The other part would be because he's a proper English fanatic.

Originally Posted by: axemaster911*****************

Dude, I wasn't mocking you. I just thought it was funny that Jolly found it necessary to correct your spelling. No need to be like that.



{editor's note: quote blanked out to reflect deleted post.}

Whoah, I hadn't seen that post... I'm assuming this is where the mods would reference people to the "Forum Rules" section.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonI beg to differ.

The chromatic scale is all 12 notes. This aint rocket science. I used this term to fret spider in a humors way as my way of poking fun at music theroy in general in reffrence to what I ( and Im sure others with straight forward common sence) frequently see in my studys as allien, difficult to understand terminolgies, with lengthy overly complicated definitions to explain subject matter that( in my opinion ) could be defined, and explained in much simpler common sence terms, and definitions aimed at the precentage of the population lacking majors, and doctrines in multiple fields of study. Put simply there is an easier way to teach. And there is a need for teachers with humility, without the need to impress students with there infinite, indepth intellegence ( show off ). Which has the effect of discouraging, and overwhelming some students who dont realize that, for example when there instructer directs them to Augment the 3rd, and sixth scale degrees, there not preforming open heart surgery on a diatonic scale. There just moving up one fret the third note in the scale, and the sixth.
So my cromatic ( oops ), chromatic mode saying was just fun humor, with me as the one I was making fun of using the chromatic scale as my simple minded soulution to a actually difficult question, with not one easy answer, but a careful orchastration of multipule answers in an atempt to clarify for someone something that by nature is not easily clarifyed.
And I am not a good speller, but there are things that I am very good at, as Im sure are you. So If I start looking for the things that your not good at, and start making wise cracks about them, for no good reason. Well you get my drift. I would like you to give it to me straight what the big deal is about the chromatic scale that I desicrated, and miss informed about. Like I said my statement was humor, not intended as ligatamit information for any one. And beging to differ I would like you to give me the definition for the word as you spelled CHROMATICS with an S.

Originally Posted by: axemaster911The chromatic scale is all 12 notes. This aint rocket science. I used this term to fret spider in a humors way as my way of poking fun at music theroy in general in reffrence to what I ( and Im sure others with straight forward common sence) frequently see in my studys as allien, difficult to understand terminolgies, with lengthy overly complicated definitions to explain subject matter that( in my opinion ) could be defined, and explained in much simpler common sence terms, and definitions aimed at the precentage of the population lacking majors, and doctrines in multiple fields of study. Put simply there is an easier way to teach. And there is a need for teachers with humility, without the need to impress students with there infinite, indepth intellegence ( show off ). Which has the effect of discouraging, and overwhelming some students who dont realize that, for example when there instructer directs them to Augment the 3rd, and sixth scale degrees, there not preforming open heart surgery on a diatonic scale. There just moving up one fret the third note in the scale, and the sixth.[/QUOTE]
Actually, things like the Augmented 3rd have more purpose than meets the eye and aren't actually needlessly complex terms to strike fear into beginners' eyes. And that's why these teachers (who apparantly need to show off) don't bombard beginners with things like that. But as for the validity of things like the Augmented 3rd. Well, Take E to G#. That's a Major 3rd. What if we raise it to G##? That's an Augmented 3rd, as I'm sure you already know. While it still sounds like an A, the function of it is different. It's a type of 3rd, not a 4th. Any E to any G is a third. Sharp or flat, diminished or augmented. It's how it's organized and depending on the situation will determine whether you'll use an Augmented 3rd (G##) or Perfect 4th (A). I compare it to the English use of there, their, and they're. Depending on what situation you're in will determine which one you use and though they sound the same their function is completely different.

Originally Posted by: axemaster911
So my cromatic ( oops ), chromatic mode saying was just fun humor, with me as the one I was making fun of using the chromatic scale as my simple minded soulution to a actually difficult question, with not one easy answer, but a careful orchastration of multipule answers in an atempt to clarify for someone something that by nature is not easily clarifyed.

I don't think it's the comment about chromatics that you've made that's really going to get people riled up and ready to retaliate. More so the response to Julian. Just not a good way to go about things.

[QUOTE=axemaster911]
And I am not a good speller, but there are things that I am very good at, as Im sure are you. So If I start looking for the things that your not good at, and start making wise cracks about them, for no good reason. Well you get my drift. I would like you to give it to me straight what the big deal is about the chromatic scale that I desicrated, and miss informed about. Like I said my statement was humor, not intended as ligatamit information for any one. And beging to differ I would like you to give me the definition for the word as you spelled CHROMATICS with an S.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=chromatics

Originally Posted by: Cryptic Excretionshttp://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=chromatic

chro·mat·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kr-mtk)
adj.

Relating to colors or color.
Relating to color perceived to have a saturation greater than zero.
Music.
Of, relating to, or based on the chromatic scale.
Relating to chords or harmonies based on nonharmonic tones.

I'm guessing part of the reason why Jolly said that is because he doesn't like incorrect information regarding music theory to be spread around. The other part would be because he's a proper English fanatic.

Ok, I see all your definitions for chromatic. Now find me one for chromatics with the S at the end. Thats what I was reffering to.

What in name of misunderstanding did I say about the chromatic scale that is incorrect information. First of all I wasent giving any one advice on any thing. I was making a humorous, indirect statement about people like me who when sometimes overwhelmed by the study of music theroy, and its complex terminologys, and seamingly endless variations of patterns with names from outer space that are pronounced so diffrent, yet look, and sound so the same. People like me who get frustrated with knowledge that we need to learn, but cant understand, or remember the multi-syllable terminologys in a foreign language used to discribe them.
I was reading a answer that fret spider was giving to a person with a question "I think" about diffrent types of modes. Something in practice not extreemly complex. But I realized after reading the very lengthy, indepth answer that was required to correctly answer the question how seemingly complex the answer had to be to just discribe a few variations of scale patterns thats only diffrence was the note, or degree they started on.
So the joke, or humor in my saying when all else fails just go chromatic was in the scale dictionary the chromatic scale which is listed as one of the many, many exotic augmented, and diminished, and mixo-way out there wild and wacky scales there are to chose from, at least theres one mentioned where a frustrated, and confused theroy student can bang away with a pattern that cant miss.( Its just a joke )
Now I dont know if there many people out there like me, but if I saw the little phrase I quoated to fret spider at the bottom of his noble attempt at properly answering a frustrated music theroy investigator, I certainly wouldent have thought it to be an addition to fret spiders answer. You guys should know better, after all you are the experts.

Originally Posted by: Julian VickersDude, I wasn't mocking you. I just thought it was funny that Jolly found it necessary to correct your spelling. No need to be like that.

Every since I have been coming to this site I have been mostly misunderstood by alot of readers of my threads & posts. I think most of it is because of the mixing of cultures not understanding phrases, and diffrent way of comunicating. But when you said teehee, you sure pwned that n00b and his spelling errors" that sounded to me worse than mocking, and I dont have to be a rocket scientist to see how you think of me ( which I could care less frankly ) But, your statement quite frankly is weird, and yes you most certainly were mocking me, which is damm funny if you stop and look back at your spelling in the vary Hee-Hee-Ha-Ha squible you wrote.
It is all meaningless to me, but damm, give me a break dude. Whats up with you any way. And what the hells a n00b.

Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsActually, things like the Augmented 3rd have more purpose than meets the eye and aren't actually needlessly complex terms to strike fear into beginners' eyes. And that's why these teachers (who apparantly need to show off) don't bombard beginners with things like that. But as for the validity of things like the Augmented 3rd. Well, Take E to G#. That's a Major 3rd. What if we raise it to G##? That's an Augmented 3rd, as I'm sure you already know. While it still sounds like an A, the function of it is different. It's a type of 3rd, not a 4th. Any E to any G is a third. Sharp or flat, diminished or augmented. It's how it's organized and depending on the situation will determine whether you'll use an Augmented 3rd (G##) or Perfect 4th (A). I compare it to the English use of there, their, and they're. Depending on what situation you're in will determine which one you use and though they sound the same their function is completely different.

I don't think it's the comment about chromatics that you've made that's really going to get people riled up and ready to retaliate. More so the response to Julian. Just not a good way to go about things.


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=chromatics

Wow, you are really impressing me with your vast knowledge. You think I was making an example of how a 3rd is agumented with a sixth, and realize there a problem with that, its not a realistic soulution, I must show him my superior intelegence, and impress myself with my brilliance. But I am here to tell you I am not impressed. You likly dident even comprehend my true message being consumed with looking for any part you could dispute so to show your on a higher level. You got alot to learn, but you will never admit it. Julian got what he deserverd, let me guess, hes your buddy, and you got his back. Im impressed.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonI beg to differ.

A miss spelled word. An idea, or thought not of your liking. That all it takes to provoke a well placed pun intended to show yourself to be on a higer level. This is not strength, it is weekness. These are my last words on what has been a unpleasant matter, as well as counter productive.

look axemaster stop getting so offended by what people say, its a frikin forum, its not like its to your face or really insulting. and in this world people will make fun of each other, little jibes and watever like you did to me, and im fine with that it was sorta funny. so when someone does the same to you look at it as a joke, and if you think it is truely offensive try to mabee ask wat those people meant before telling them to f off. i mean i have crap spelling and people have comented at it but it doesnt really bother me.

also i would like to add just to make sure this is not clear i am not ripping it out of you or mocking you i ma trying to give advice.

also i do not answer peoples questions so i can show off or make myself look all big, in fact i find it quite boarin to write a load of stuff down. in fact it takes me a while cos i have to work tonnes of it out. i can just remember that i had a lot of trouble when i started and i want to help others. and in return i hope when i ask questions someone will help me.

but i should also be fair as there are never only one side to the story, even if u didnt mean it jolly, ur comment did come across as kinda insulting, especially the word noob, which i ahve never heard in a non offencive way.


overall please no one take this the wrong way, i do not want to make any enemies, or insult anyone. i just find it anoyin that your all gettin so upset by nothing.

anyway i hope this is resolved soon.

Originally Posted by: axemaster911Wow, you are really impressing me with your vast knowledge. You think I was making an example of how a 3rd is agumented with a sixth, and realize there a problem with that, its not a realistic soulution, I must show him my superior intelegence, and impress myself with my brilliance. But I am here to tell you I am not impressed. You likly dident even comprehend my true message being consumed with looking for any part you could dispute so to show your on a higher level. You got alot to learn, but you will never admit it. Julian got what he deserverd, let me guess, hes your buddy, and you got his back. Im impressed.

Firstly, I'm not tackling Julian's problems. Those are his to deal with. I'm only saying cool it because this thread's in a section of the forum intended for education in theory. Not frivelous debating about spelling. If this was in the open discussion, I'd most likely be right there with you adding to the mayhem. But there's a time and a place for everything and I'm not taking anyone's side on this one.

That being said, if people misunderstand most of the things you say, don't you think it'd be a good idea to rephrase things? I don't know if you intended it but a lot of your responses come across as arrogant and sarcastic, so if you don't mean to sound like that then it would be best to rephrase things.

Finally, I don't think anyone missed the chromatic joke, but everything that happened after that just wasn't necessary. I got the message you were saying loud and clear and I was rebuttling simply with how that's not entirely true. I'm not trying to impress anyone, more so to assist the process of informing accurate information. Which is why I go to lengths to explain things in drug out posts. So there's no room for misunderstandings. At least that's the big goal.

wow, this is really rediculous, i think we should start a new thread, and it should be about attacking people because they like to argue over the internet about dumb things

Yeah dude this is thread is messed up. I'm not even gonna argue, As I said before, I meant the whole "pwned that n00b" thing as a harmless joke, aimed at Jolly, not at you axemaster, because I just thought it was funny that he felt the need to correct your minor spelling error.