High Output Pickups vs. a Distortion Pedal/Heavy Duty Amp.

A few of you uber-experienced folks have been noting repeatedly that if you want loud/distorted it's not so much a matter of the pickups as it is a matter of your pedal/amp setup.

I like loud much of the time... and I mean loud... real loud... intolerably loud... as in you put in the CD and almost every metalhead in the room starts begging you to turn it off before their ears and the stereo gets ruined... but I also like versatility. So, I guess you could say, I'm in search of the happy medium.

I'm getting the impression that if I had a "Nuclear Holocaust that Destroys All Life on Earth" humbucker in the bridge and a "Flaming Satan Dungeonmaster Pitchfork Up Your @$$" humbucker in the neck and a "Reamer Screamer Beg-For-Mercy-But-You-Ain't-Gettin'-None" single coil in the mid-position...

...it would only be good for the heavy pukey metally sludge type stuff, and be too... uhhhhhhhh... uncontrollable and chaotic - or "dirty", if you will - for everything and anything else (ethereal goth, jazz, surf rock, rockabilly, 1950s heavy Link Wray blues, etc.). As much as I might dig that kind of dirty and loud, that's not what I want 24/7.

At the same time, I like my "clean" with plenty of "grit." As in, on the fence between clean and dirty: clean enough where the inborn tone of the guitar itself (the wood, the hardware, the strings, etc.) is entirely discernable and will make tone enthusiasts nod with at least some token approval...

...but dirty enough that it's still "ominous", if you will. As in, I give it a strum on the cleanest setting and everyone knows it's not a guitar meant for backing up Michael Bolton or for noodling in a 'smooth jazz' quintet, or for grooving along with Phish or the Grateful Dead on one of their down-key "mellow out, maaaaan" tracks.

As in, they know that with but a flick of a switch, the weaker members of the audience will call up their attorneys within minutes of their having fled the venue, with ear blood having stained the collars of their polo shirts and their own chunkless vomit having covered them from chin to shoe.

(If anybody knew of the Swans, or knows who Merzbow is, they'll know what I mean. About the barfing and the lawsuits, I mean.)

I have read that the Seymour Duncan "Parallel Axis Distortion" humbucker accomplishes this: if played clean it sounds unexpectedly good but has a distinct dirty edge to it. I wonder if the Bareknuckle "Nailbomb" would also accomplish this (the one humbucker I covet most). As in, go from earth shattering to being plenty clean but with a notably jagged edge.

Well, in short, my question is this: to get that "clean with grit" tone I've described, does it matter then what kind of pickups I get? Or not?

And secondly, to get the sort of loudness and distortion I describe; it would really be nothing more than a flick of a switch? As in, whatever pedal(s) or amp (with the right specs) I get would do the job 100%? The pickups need not figure into it? At all?

Or, like... say for whatever reason I had a 3-single-coil guitar (like a normal Strat) and put in "Smooth Cool Groove" jazz pickups in it (something they'd use for smooth jazz, quiet storm, easy listening, etc. or, rather, something that's marketed towards that crowd), would that not work, regardless of pedal/amp setup?

Thanks in advance. I feel I'm getting closer and closer to figuring out what kind of setup I need, thanks largely to y'all. :)

hmm...

You do realise this is kinda like asking for "the meaning of life, the universe, and everything", don't you?

There are reasons why I have several guitars. They are all very versatile, in that they are all able to sound good in any genre I care to attempt. And they all sound a bit different from each other.

I think my second 1984 Yamaha SBG1000, with a DiMarzio Tone Zone at the bridge, and a DiMarzio PAF Pro at the neck, is pretty much what you're looking for. No centre single-coil, though.

A big part of tone is the amp. I like old V-series Ampegs for their ability to make a guitar sound so loud that you can feel it, without sounding like an amp. That takes a while to understand, 'cause it doesn't make sense until you play one. Most big-name amps, especially Fender and Marshall, have their signature sound. Ampegs sound like the guitar and the player.

I've never experienced another brand of amp that brought out subtle differences in guitar tone the way my mid-70's Ampegs do. There's nowhere to hide. I wanna die of embarrassment when I get sloppy, because what comes out of the speakers sounds so bad. But when I've got my chops in order, there's nothing quite like the intimacy of expression this rig delivers.

Which brings us back to the guitar. When your amp allows subtle differences to come through, then your tone-quest becomes a matter of finding the combination of hardware and technique that delivers what you're looking for.

What you describe, sounds like something a blues player would recognise. Riding that clean/dirty edge is a way of life. You need an amp that has a very ballsy clean tone. And a distorted tone that doesn't get muddy when you go from single notes to chords. Both of my Ampegs do this, but there are differences in the way they do it.

My 1976 VT-22 is a 120 Watt, 2x12" open-back combo. There's no gain adjustment, just a volume control. The tone circuits are true boost/cut type, with a wide range of adjustment. The output tubes are a quad of JJ KT88's, biased for maximum undistorted output. The sound stays fairly clean up until your clothing is flapping in the wind off the speakers. Then there's a smooth transition into a kind of distortion that I call The Voice of God. Its not the creamy 'brown' sound of earlier tube amps, and its not the sharp-edged raspy sound I associate with metal. It sounds like what it actually is - a very powerful force that has been pushed hard, and is pushing back - harder! Earplugs and body armour are recommended.

My 1977 VT-40 is unique. It was badly flood-damaged, so as part of my salvage operation, I had to build a new cab for it and I tossed the original speakers. Its now a 60 Watt 1x15" closed-back combo. There are switches to adjust the gain of each channel. The tone controls are the same as my VT-22. There's a Master Volume control. This amp sounds a bit thicker. The 15" speaker in a closed cab gives it some serious punch, and the amp gets noticeably dirty quicker than the VT-22. The output tubes are the original Magnavox (re-labeled Sylvania) 7027A's.

I should point out here that cutting the power delivered to a speaker in half produces a barely noticeable drop in apparent volume. So the difference between 60 Watts and 120 Watts isn't a big deal. The speaker in my 1x15" combo is very efficient, so the smaller amp is actually at least as loud as the 'big' one. The difference mostly comes down to things like response to picking dynamics.

In your case, you would probably change the output tubes to 6550's to get a bit sharper transition from clean to cruch. I think something like the Tone Zone & PAF Pro pairing would work for you though. If I have it right, these pickups use ceramic magnets instead of the alnico mags used in older designs. harmonics tend to jump out more, and even when being played clean, there's a bit of an edge to their sound. More 'bite', if you will.

I have two 1984 Yamaha SBG1000 guitars, which are identical except for the pickups. My first one has a DiMarzio Dual Sound humbucker at the bridge, and a DiMarzio SCHB humbucker at the neck. I call it "Brand X", because its the standard that all other guitars get compared to. My second SBG1000 has the Tone Zone / PAF Pro pair in it. I instinctively reach for this one when I want to howl. I call it "The Stalker" as a pun on the fact that I left it stock for quite a while. Its my nasty axe. I think you'd like it. :D

Originally Posted by: Vegas Wierdo... Well, in short, my question is this: to get that "clean with grit" tone I've described, does it matter then what kind of pickups I get? Or not?

And secondly, to get the sort of loudness and distortion I describe; it would really be nothing more than a flick of a switch? As in, whatever pedal(s) or amp (with the right specs) I get would do the job 100%? The pickups need not figure into it? At all?...

This is one reason I use 4-wire humbucking pickups any time I replace the originals. With the coils connected in parallel, the sound is quite sweet and the output is fairly low, so I can set the amp to sound clean, or I can ride that clean/dirty edge. Then I have the option of switching the coils to series connection, which gives a heavier tone and increases the output enough to push the amp into distortion. I can do this at the guitar without having to go back to the amp and tweak the settings. My old 'pegs don't have multi-channel front ends. Olde Skool!

Wow! Thanks for all the choice info!

Are there any currently-being-manufactured amps with similar properties to the old Ampegs? Because those things sound like just my ticket! :cool: Of course, I can always go a'hunting on eBay for the real things.

I consider myself a metalhead... well, it was always my first love, shall we say... but in recent years I've come to share your assessment about the sharp/raspy tone that so many metal bands these days seem to have. The stuff that's popular now sounds so "synthetic" or "digital" to me... whereas I dig up the old Black Sabbath records and it's still a big booted kick to my spine... even if they're not doing hardcore thrash or Xtreme neo-classical hyper-noodling. Or even Iggy Pop and the Stooges... as chaotic/simplistic as they were.

I know what you mean about screwing up on a clean amp. I have this cheesy little practice amp that only really does "clean"... I mean... not a true and good clean... but just plain "clean." It's clean enough to pick up every last little mistake, scrape, scratch, etc. It does have a "drive" knob but if you give it more than a quarter turn it poops out uselessly.

Well, I went into the Guitar Center and plugged in a Schecter C-1 Classic into a Line 6 2x12 and cranked the distortion to the "metal" setting.

Some guy across the room was doing all these speed metal solos mixed in with super-fast thrash chords... the usual late 80s/early 90s shredder type stuff... and I go "awwww man... it's gonna take years for me to get that good."

Well, I noodle on the Schecter a bit and then it very suddenly dawns on me "what the... hey wait a minute!!!" So I start messing around full-speed-ahead and I actually outplayed that other guy! (Of course, I had three fingers and a thumb versus his pick). I was doing all this crazy wildman speed metal stuff that, apparently, is simply impossible (for me, at least) to pull off on my Strat with its big fat 13 gauge joint-killer strings (damn, they've got tone, though) and my "no frills, clean only" practice amp.

It was a real eye-opener. It made me realize that all those metal gods throughout the years who were pulling off all this crazy-sounding stuff (to my 13-year-old ears... over a decade ago now) that I thought would take fifty years to ever match... really weren't all that extraordinary and godlike.

Edited to add: I've always been fascinated by the notion of running it through two amps at once... and keeping one on "clean" the whole time (well... I should say... no pedals or on-board effects or anything... just the guitar cable and the signal) and running all the FX/overdrive/distortion through the other one. If I'm not mistaken, Keith Richards and SRV are/were known for doing so... and there's many notable bassists who do so as well.

This >VT-40< looks to be the same year as mine (1977). And it hasn't been sitting in three feet of water!

As some one that only use's bridge Pick-up when distorted and neck or midle when clean try investing into a coil tap. But i know for bridge seymour duncan sh-6 distortion is'nt to bad, note people grow out of metal :(

Metal is forever!!!

But of course I'm no longer 14, when all I could dig was metal. Nevertheless, it'll always be my first love and everything I do will have to have a "heavy" or "noise" element or else I just couldn't fully dig my own work.

oh i see, try getting more then one guitar then :confused:

one a full blown metal beast
one a utility axe "any H S S set up will fit that good"