A story of a volunteer in New Orleans..

Originally Posted by: scarface84Eh, maybe because you brought them to "the new land" from africa and forced them to work for nada. :rolleyes:

I didin't bring anybody over here, nor did any of my ancestors. So, why should I be held resposible?

Rask, you make good points on your last post.

I'm not quite "getting it" yet on how to properly post multiple quotes here so I'll just touch on a couple of points.

-You do, but I don't have a problem with companies paying reparations...of some sort...I'm not saying to just blindly put money in the pockets of poor folks. That obviously will not work. So there we are probably in a dead-lock.

But here's the crucial factor of what you wrote:

Quote:
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In the end, this problem comes down to child-rearing and education and the disintegration of the family.

And, sadly, you can't make somebody learn, you can't make [usually] a father stay dedicated to his children nor can you make whoever decides to raise the child(ren) bring them up to be upstanding citizens.

Until the cultural factors encouraging these things change, any handouts or reparations will be largely wasted.
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Truer words could not be written. But my immediate thoughts are to make the point of why poor blacks are that way because of historical reasons...and that point always sounds like excuses. They are not excuses, merely reasons.

So what is the answer? It's simple really but no one will touch it with a ten foot poll. Here it is: People on welfare need to answer to society that's giving them help, and answer on a regular basis, answer in detail, be tracked, monitored, couseled, taught, etc, etc.....until they no longer have the need for welfare. They are wards of the state without ANY accountability to speak of as it is NOW. People don't want to touch it because it is an old debate with strongly held beliefs that it would create another class of citizen...the slave citizen. But what the hell is it now? I don't see any other answer. It doesn't work as it is now, so why not try something else. If a program like this is done, couseling will be a big part of it to deprogram the way of thinking that many poorer folks have. And who should pay for such a program...well, I've already answered that.

For those that think welfare should, or even could be abolished....well, research will show you that the only folks who want that are the political leaders and business men who profit from prisons. If you eliminate welfare you will pay far more taxes in the end processing people through jails and courts. Do you have any idea how much it costs, averaged per inmate, to keep someone in prison? Depending on the locale and other factors, between $30k and $60k per year!!! Now, tell me there is not money for the program I describe.

The bottom line is that if a person wants the "people's" money, they need to be accountable, COMPLETELY, to the people. Not the half-ass accountability that we have now.....no....make that tenth-of-an-ass.

Originally Posted by: scarface84Eh, maybe because you brought them to "the new land" from africa and forced them to work for nada. :rolleyes:

my ancestors didn't get here until around 1900. a good couple decades after slavery. i didn't do jack to the slaves. try another one, not everyone here has roots that run deep enough, nor did everyone own slaves (slaves were expensive and surprisingly enough, not every white person in the south owned them). quit acting like such a jerk with stuff that you're ignorant on.

Originally Posted by: PRSplayaI didin't bring anybody over here, nor did any of my ancestors. So, why should I be held resposible?

I didn't say you should be held responsible, when you said "why should we be blamed" i assumed you meant white people (who lived during that time), and that black people were responsible because they were the ones who sold them, i wasn't reffering to "you" as a person though, just a misunderstanding

And, as for "tehplatypussy", look, i didn't say everyone had relatives who owned slaves, i meant that owning slaves was common, that's it, and don't call me a jerk btw act your ****ing age. :mad:

Originally Posted by: kingdavidWTF?!@?#?#$ :eek:
Shouldn't that be illegal or something? Fine, you (not you,Rask) want to be a racist asshole, go right ahead. But a school (schools are formed on the basis of some law or other, right?)??? WTF is that?[/quote]
That is what happens when the Liberal "enlightened" North turns its back on the "red states" because it needs somebody to blame when the Democrats pick a boring, droning stick in the mud for their Presidential nominee and they (SURPRISE!) lose the election.

Originally Posted by: kingdavidThat's the part people don't get. It's a bit lame to say my great great grandfather worked for Ma Bell for free, so Sprint(it's a baby ball,right?) should pay me a whoopass bag full of green backs.
Lame ass. Go and find a job!![/QUOTE]
See, I think this is just it... as long as we have two standards -- one for those who go out and earn their living and another for those who milk the system, it's never going to improve. And sadly, the more education and families break down, the more people choose for that second standard to be applied to them.

Originally Posted by: scarface84

Originally Posted by: PRSplayaI can't understand why we're the ones that get blamed for slavery, when their own people are the ones who sold them. :confused:

Eh, maybe because you brought them to "the new land" from africa and forced them to work for nada. :rolleyes:

Arabs, England, Spain and France were just as involved with the slave trade as the American colonies; not only in carrying it out (in fact, the very seeds of the Royal Navy were sewn to force open Spanish markets in the New World to English merchants), but also for their very lucrative plantation colonies in the West Indies and South America.



[QUOTE=scarface84][QUOTE=bigbuda]Slavery is long over with yet black people are quick to bring it up. Yeah, slavery was bad but I think indians were treated much worse and yet you never hear about them. Huh, ain't that strange?

I think that's because indians were pretty much wiped out, not many left to complain huh? Maybe it's not mentioned in the US much but in europe, atleast where i live everyone calls it a genocide.

First off, I'm part Abenaki and I think it's stupid to drag responsibility for injustices carried out hundreds of years ago onto people living today -- many of whom like me also share Indian blood.

Second, for quite some time, that genocide was carried out in name of King and country -- for England, for France, for Spain and for every other colonial power; just as much of the profits for this were shipped back to Europe and the monarchs and investors who concocted these schemes in the first place.

Third, I can remember some very public protests in Europe when my nation has stepped in to stop genocide, both in the Balkans and in Iraq. So, tell me: Is genocide indeed a horrifying evil that must be opposed at all costs or is it "none of your business" if you are not directly involved with it?

I'm still not saying people who live today should be blamed, and i never have, i meant people who lived during that time owned slaves, not only white people, but arabs and spaniards and what not. i was just responding to PRSplaya, cause i thought he meant that white people who lived during that time shouldn't be blamed, but that the blacks should, because they sold slaves, i've already explained this twice now, so stop saying things like "I think it's stupid to drag responsibility for injustices carried out hundreds of years ago onto people living today" because i feel the same way, please don't make me explain all this a 3rd time, bc i used up all my english :p Ps.i said i LIVE in europe(most of the time), i'm not european though.

Originally Posted by: scarface84I didn't say you should be held responsible, when you said "why should we be blamed" i assumed you meant white people (who lived during that time), and that black people were responsible because they were the ones who sold them, i wasn't reffering to "you" as a person though, just a misunderstanding

And, as for "tehplatypussy", look, i didn't say everyone had relatives who owned slaves, i meant that owning slaves was common, that's it, and don't call me a jerk btw act your ****ing age. :mad:

if 84 is in reference to your age, then we're the same age...except you're acting like a 16 year old who just now picked up a copy of howard zinn's a people's history of the united states. oh yeah, i also censored myself instead of swearing.

anyways, owning slaves WASN'T common unless you were already wealthy. which was the point i was making. do you not have the common sense to even reason that owning slaves wasn't a common occurrance? that's like saying being a tax dodging millionare is a common occurrance...does it happen? yes. do a majority of people do it? no. i mean the way you speak about it, it's like as if everyone who lived in the south in the time of the civil war and pre-civil war slavery era were rich land owners who owned slaves.

you do know there were infact rich black land owners who owned slaves too, right? you also know that some slaves were treated more like share croppers than they were property.

excuse the turn of phrase but stop making things black and white when history is never that simplistic.

was slavery bad? yes. was every slave owner a bad person? some were , some werent; some actually treated their slaves as members of their own family and treated them as good as they could. did every white person in the country own slaves? no. was slavery just isolated to the south? no.

now can we get back to being civil about this instead of taking sophmoric cheap shots about acting one's age?

actually, you're forgetting that you started the whole namecalling thing, remember? Also thinking that some slave owners were good people is ****ed up, BC owning a slave is just not acceptable. I mean first you say :

was slavery bad? yes.

And then :

was every slave owner a bad person? some were , some werent

:confused: They were doing something really bad, so yes, i wouldn't call them good people y'know. BTW, please try not to answer your own questions all the time, makes me think you're talking to yourself, it's annoying, honestly. ;)

Well i was gonna say some stuff but Raskolnikov already said it. So I was gonna quote him but I agree with everything he said, so that saves me a lot of time ;) .
About the earlier stuff in this thread, all I want to say is FEMA is not a first responder. And I don't see how scraping up the past about slavery will help that much either, and thanks Rask for stealing all my thunder, :D

Originally Posted by: scarface84actually, you're forgetting that you started the whole namecalling thing, remember? Also thinking that some slave owners were good people is ****ed up, BC owning a slave is just not acceptable. I mean first you say : And then : :confused: They were doing something really bad, so yes, i wouldn't call them good people y'know. BTW, please try not to answer your own questions all the time, makes me think you're talking to yourself, it's annoying, honestly. ;)

i worded that poorly. what i meant to convey was that not every slave owner beat their slaves and treated them as subhuman and as animals.

Originally Posted by: tehplatypusquit acting like such a jerk with stuff that you're ignorant on.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=scarface84]And, as for "tehplatypussy", look, i didn't say everyone had relatives who owned slaves, i meant that owning slaves was common, that's it, and don't call me a jerk btw act your ****ing age. :mad:

Just because I've disappeared doesn't mean I won't lay the smackdown on this thread if it gets out of hand and turns into a flame war. Consider this fair warning if you come back and the thread has been locked.

Everybody is stepping on each others feet (words). I thought this thread was gonna end. I just read it updated and some how it lead to the discussion of slavery!? What the hell! It makes a heated debate but there is a lot of people who are sensitive out there. Eh...we're all the same, human. I’m racist against racist. Sorry. I guess I don’t have anything intelligent to add. Peace in love. :)

ok platypus, fair enough, peace bro :D

Originally Posted by: scarface84I didn't say you should be held responsible, when you said "why should we be blamed" i assumed you meant white people (who lived during that time), and that black people were responsible because they were the ones who sold them, i wasn't reffering to "you" as a person though, just a misunderstanding

No, I meant white people of today. We (white people of today) still get the blame thrown at us today. Which, I think is rediculous, as we (white people of today) had nothing to do with what happened well over 100 years ago. Also, if it weren't for "our" ancestors bringing their ancestors over here, who know's what kind of life they would be living. They get all these free handouts from the government, special treatment, etc... but yet they still want more for something we (white people of today) had no controll over. I think they've got it pretty damn good today, compaired to what they could be living like.

I hear ya PRS, it was just a misunderstanding (my fault :o ) I know what it's like to be blamed for things you're ancestors have done or even haven't done. In my case it's kurds who are asking me to apologize for my persian ancestors and what they've done. Ridiculous i agree.

Originally Posted by: scarface84ok platypus, fair enough, peace bro :D

peace be with you.