A story of a volunteer in New Orleans..

Originally Posted by: tomcas929I'm talking about old money. The big companies that built railroads, made steel, made weapons, built ships, skyscrapers, and all the other great things we have done.

These companies didn't use slave labor...

ctrl + alt + end thread

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonThese companies didn't use slave labor...

At least one industry did, the Railroads.

And like I said, I'm not the best writer. What that sentence and the following sentences are saying is...that the huge companies that DID build those things could not have done so if it did not have the profits from the past. Look at the link I sent earlier, you'll get it.

I thought the railroads use Chinese dudes called coolies....

Originally Posted by: LeedoggI wasn't suggesting that you were dude. I only clarified because there's a lot of younger people on these boards who may be following this thread who were lost. As for my cracker, I was making a funny :D. As in, "What's crackalackin' my cracka?".

As for your other points, I'll step aside and let someone of a more conservative nature address your points. But I will pose this question: Should Volkswagen pay Jews?

Oh, no way man...I didn't think you were saying that :) I just tend to distance myself from that stuff as much as possible....especially in writing because it's often so difficult to show emotion. You see, I already know that some ignorant people think the word WASP is an insult.....so when you said cracker I just wanted to clarify.

Originally Posted by: LeedoggI thought the railroads use Chinese dudes called coolies....

Yes, they did. But also used Blacks. Even when slavery was abolished there were still unbelievable racist acts taking place in the labor force. Read this article:

http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_05_2_bern.pdf#search='railroad%20labor'

This is the stuff the history books gloss over. But as time goes on our ignorance will fade and the true history will be well known.

Oh, and for the guy who commented to end this thread.....why? If we're gonna do a non-guitar thread then let's REALLY do it so we can all learn something and maybe make a better future.....jeese, I'm sounding like a Michael Jackson song...LOL.

Originally Posted by: tomcas929At least one industry did, the Railroads.

Actually, the railroads were built by the Scotch-Irish and the Chinese...

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonActually, the railroads were built by the Scotch-Irish and the Chinese...

My friend, if you are gonna respond so quickly at least look at the links I send and/or do some research to confirm your own statements. I'm sure you are correct ALSO, but if you think black people did not work on the railroads then you are in need of some grade school history lessons.

How does railroad slave labor justify racial prejudice against me?*


I mean, if we really want to bring history into this, I'm from Vermont... Vermont was a major artery on the Underground Railroad, the first state (actually, a repbulic at the time) in the union to abolish slavery, a hot bed of abolitionist sentiment and the state that sent (and lost) the most troops, per capita of any state in the union durring the Civil War.

One could argue that African Americans owe me something because of history.

Personally, though, I think that's asinine. I didn't do those things. Nor did I participate in the slave trade or own slaves. I think I should be judged based on who I am, what I've done and (when I've done something wrong) what I've done to make it right.

And I think it should be that way for everyone.


But that's how I was raised -- not everybody is raised that way and sadly, large segments of our population aren't really "raised" at all. Hence: A large part of this mess we're discussing.


PS: While the one link you posted that I checked was accurate for what little I skimmed of it, finding something on the internet doesn't make it true.



*And how does it absolve individuals from abusing the welfare system only because they can or a [mostly black administered/run] city of neglecting its poorest [mostly black] citizens in the face of an imminent natural disaster and then dragging it's feet/being uncooperative with Federal offials in the aftermath? How does it absolve looters of shooting at rescuers and impeeding the rescue effort in progress?

Originally Posted by: RaskolnikovHow does railroad slave labor justify racial prejudice against me?*

RESPONSE: It doesn't. My comments just attempt to show the big picture.


I mean, if we really want to bring history into this, I'm from Vermont... Vermont was a major artery on the Underground Railroad, the first state (actually, a repbulic at the time) in the union to abolish slavery, a hot bed of abolitionist sentiment and the state that sent (and lost) the most troops, per capita of any state in the union durring the Civil War.

One could argue that African Americans owe me something because of history.

RESPONSE: I don't understand this comment.

Personally, though, I think that's asinine. I didn't do those things. Nor did I participate in the slave trade or own slaves. I think I should be judged based on who I am, what I've done and (when I've done something wrong) what I've done to make it right.

RESPONSE: No one said you did, but I also assume you are not part of a big corporation with past ties to slave labor. (Although I don't really know you, I'm just assuming.)I'm not saying at all that any person of any color owes anybody anything. I'm saying that big corps that benefitted from slave labor should deal with the problem. Not white people in general which has been what our government has been doing for decades.

And I think it should be that way for everyone.


But that's how I was raised -- not everybody is raised that way and sadly, large segments of our population aren't really "raised" at all. Hence: A large part of this mess we're discussing.

RESPONSE: This point is the crux of what I'm saying. Think about this...if you were raised within a time where YOUR people (whatever that may be) endured the hardships that blacks have, do you think your family would have have just as much opportunity to succede.

PS: While the one link you posted that I checked was accurate for what little I skimmed of it, finding something on the internet doesn't make it true.

RESPONSE: I agree, but those are just small examples of well known facts, long proven and acknowledged in society.

*And how does it absolve individuals from abusing the welfare system only because they can or a [mostly black administered/run] city of neglecting its poorest [mostly black] citizens in the face of an imminent natural disaster and then dragging it's feet/being uncooperative with Federal offials in the aftermath? How does it absolve looters of shooting at rescuers and impeeding the rescue effort in progress?

RESPONSE: The people who do those bad things should NOT be absolved of guilt. You only assume I think that because people have been trained to respond that way. I merely stated my views on why things are the way they are. The big picture as I see it. Problems don't get fixed from the bottom up, they get fixed from the top down. It does not mean they are absolved. I'm not offering answers, just stating facts as I know them to encourage thought for real solutions.
-Believe me, I'm not a bleeding heart. I believe welfare is bad but only because it's set up to perpetuate that lifestyle, so the businesses that profit from those programs can keep taking our tax dollars with the governments' permission, who then in turn give "campaign contributions". Anbody with common sense can create a program that works to get people on track, but it will never happen because that is not profitable. The fact that it makes you mad is half the reason the government wants it in place the way it is now. Keep the people divided...to divert attention from the corruption behind the scenes.

What corporation existing today has ties to slave labor?

Taco Bell.

Originally Posted by: HammurabiTaco Bell.

Ba dum Kish! Thank you folks he'll be here all week!

You better run for de border essay!

Originally Posted by: LeedoggBa dum Kish! Thank you folks he'll be here all week!

You better run for de border essay!

oh no you di' int!

Originally Posted by: tomcas929RESPONSE: The people who do those bad things should NOT be absolved of guilt. You only assume I think that because people have been trained to respond that way. I merely stated my views on why things are the way they are. The big picture as I see it.[/quote]I still have problems with the idea of punishing companies for things that happened well over a century ago and under the leadership of people who are long, long, LONG dead.

Originally Posted by: tomcas929Problems don't get fixed from the bottom up, they get fixed from the top down.

Problems get fixed from the bottom up all the time.

Just look at the Environmental consciousness of oil companies in certain parts of Indonesia; not because the oil company is nescessarily committed to being "green" or because the government requires it, but because the local tribes made it abundantly clear that if the forest they revere and depend upon for their survival was destroyed, they'd start killing people.

Dolphin Safe Tuna is another more local, well known example; the movement was entirely consumer driven and (as far as I know) still isn't legally required of fisherman.



[QUOTE=tomcas929]It does not mean they are absolved. I'm not offering answers, just stating facts as I know them to encourage thought for real solutions.
-Believe me, I'm not a bleeding heart. I believe welfare is bad but only because it's set up to perpetuate that lifestyle, so the businesses that profit from those programs can keep taking our tax dollars with the governments' permission, who then in turn give "campaign contributions". Anbody with common sense can create a program that works to get people on track, but it will never happen because that is not profitable. The fact that it makes you mad is half the reason the government wants it in place the way it is now. Keep the people divided...to divert attention from the corruption behind the scenes.

ANWAR drilling, Bush's energy policies, a lot of the shady stuff that was always swirling around Clinton -- I'd buy the "political paybacks" explaination.

Ultimately, there are more people and corporations with deep pockets that pay higher taxes because of welfare than they would otherwise need to than the few who benefit from welfare related spending.


In the end, this problem comes down to child-rearing and education and the disintegration of the family.

And, sadly, you can't make somebody learn, you can't make [usually] a father stay dedicated to his children nor can you make whoever decides to raise the child(ren) bring them up to be upstanding citizens.

Until the cultural factors encouraging these things change, any handouts or reparations will be largely wasted.

Originally Posted by: Raskolnikov
There's still segregated schools in, did you say Louisiana?[/quote]
WTF?!@?#?#$ :eek:
Shouldn't that be illegal or something? Fine, you (not you,Rask) want to be a racist asshole, go right ahead. But a school (schools are formed on the basis of some law or other, right?)??? WTF is that?
[quote=Raskolnikov]
Why should I be subjected to racial prejudice coz some white folks at some point in history did this or the other

Coz the white people who did the this or other were you great grnad dad and your girlfriends great uncle, and we're sure they raised you in a similar fashion!! So damn all of you!! :D
Seriously, I'm kidding.
That's the part people don't get. It's a bit lame to say my great great grandfather worked for Ma Bell for free, so Sprint(it's a baby ball,right?) should pay me a whoopass bag full of green backs.
Lame ass. Go and find a job!!
And just so no one starts, I'm from Kenya. we still have caves where they dig up neanderthal and homo habilis bones, so I'm as black as it can get.

I can't understand why we're the ones that get blamed for slavery, when their own people are the ones who sold them. :confused:

Originally Posted by: PRSplayaI can't understand why we're the ones that get blamed for slavery, when their own people are the ones who sold them. :confused:

Eh, maybe because you brought them to "the new land" from africa and forced them to work for nada. :rolleyes:

Slavery is long over with yet black people are quick to bring it up. Yeah, slavery was bad but I think indians were treated much worse and yet you never hear about them. Huh, ain't that strange? Black people can get jobs just like anyone else in america and get paid at least minimum wage. The problem is nobody wants to hire someone who wears their pants around their ankles and talks like they have been in a gang for the last four years. I'm not saying every black person dresses or acts that way but I will say that most of them that I have seen do.

Originally Posted by: bigbudaSlavery is long over with yet black people are quick to bring it up. Yeah, slavery was bad but I think indians were treated much worse and yet you never hear about them. Huh, ain't that strange?

I think that's because indians were pretty much wiped out, not many left to complain huh? Maybe it's not mentioned in the US much but in europe, atleast where i live everyone calls it a genocide.